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Author   Topic : "doodles"
joemo
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:34 am     Reply with quote
I doodle in MSPaint and some of the doodles evolve into larger pieces (you can see the expansion lines in some of these; more to follow). Didn't think I was ambitious enough to try colour (in a large canvas) but yesterday...





Last edited by joemo on Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:54 pm     Reply with quote
This is MSPaint? OK..I will try that..
Did you mouse it or does MSPaint support a tablet?
This simple, very fast sketch..because I am short of time these next/last few days..was 212 kb in bmp..I took it into another program, made a few small corrections(?) and saved it as jpg..18kb,,Did you save back in another program or leave it as bmp?
I like MSPaint..I think the airbrush has a very rare calligraphic texture potential but the same problem as pen and ink..no mistakes..because corrections/effects are very limited..
I better label this because my drawings don't always look like what they are supposed to be..This is two figures..children ..


I am still studying the perspective drawings you posted..A friend gave me a book..Descriptive Geometry which I am going to study when I have a few minutes..Curved Surfaces..Yes!
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joemo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:47 am     Reply with quote
FWIW I think the subject of your drawing is recognizable without the label. :) Yep, MSPaint, mouse. I use tif - or bmp; I don't think it matters - and resize/convert in anything other than MSPaint (resizing is not its strong point, heh). For corrections, maybe use the airbrush set to background colour (white); the leftover black (or gray) pixels sometimes suggest new forms - and on it goes. As always, depends on how much time you want (or have) to sink into it.



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:29 am     Reply with quote
Joemo..
Those are Beautiful..Thanks for the information...
That is a texture I haven't been able to achieve in other programs ..You did a great job with it!
OK..an edited update here..Under Image ..there are resize options but I still can't find Crop..which is my usual "resize" preference..and the "save" is a personal problem with this computer..MSPaint will save in many different formats..if the computer is functioning properly..The white out is better than eraser ..That was a good tip!
Another quick sketch in MSPaint..
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:05 pm     Reply with quote
OK..What you said..."The leftover black or gray pixels suggest new forms"
That gave me this idea..
I painted a block (sort of) area with airbrush set to lt/dk grey ...Then I used airbrush set to white, a bit of grey pencil and a touch of eraser..I carved the image out of the solid block..rather than drawing outlines. more like sculptured in grey stone than "drawn."
This is what I came up with..IT is faint but I think it can be seen..
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joemo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:45 pm     Reply with quote
Nice proportions BC. Edit: Sorry, meant to add that the eyes could be lowered to about the middle of the canvas, they're a bit high.

Options for cropping or resizing (also for anyone who's not familiar with MSPaint and might want to give it a go):
1. Image/Attributes (clips or expands canvas from bottom and right edges).
2. View/Tool Box (if the Tool Box isn't showing already): Select (button with dotted line).
3. Image/Stretch/Skew: resizes (by percentage) selected area or entire canvas.

Having cooperative hardware helps, for sure. That's what got me into this to start with (a long line of "tin pot" computers). Even with a new muscle machine I keep coming back to this airbrush thing (in MSP), I guess because it's got all the basic qualities that make more 'sophisticated' painting what it is (randomness of splattered paint; high potential for creating accidental forms; etc.) - but in 'human scale' (as mentioned elsewhere): accessible to the majority.

Cave painting with a twist? :)


Last edited by joemo on Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
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joemo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:52 pm     Reply with quote
Oop, sorry BC, I was writing that last reply while you were posting your latest. Will be back...
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joemo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:09 pm     Reply with quote
BC I've been thinking of your previous comment "People make pictures if they have to use fire blackened sticks and mud smeared on cave walls by firelight.."

Yeah! I'm all over that, count me IN. :)

Understood re carved in stone (interesting effect). The greys seem to underscore the 'shyness' of the character...

I tried using grey (example below) but decided to make all values manually (using only black and white). Though that's just me, I enjoy tedium? Ditto re canvases that are a couple thousand pixels across (as above). One of the 'rules' I follow (which usually applies to halftone images in traditional printing) is "no white areas without black dots and no black areas without white dots".


060325


Last edited by joemo on Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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joemo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:23 pm     Reply with quote
Ref applied to an earlier sketch from memory. Might enlarge this and add detail, but later.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:08 am     Reply with quote
Joemo
One thing I have not been able to learn on the computer..or find a useful technique for learning is SHADING
That is learned with a pencil in traditional art and I haven't had much luck with pencils..
Computer shading is dodge/burn/ and push brush
I learned more about shading... "sculpting" in grey and white while doing that little drawing than I have learned from studying "values" tutorials for years..
Calligraphy...is now possible for me because..The ink splatters are part of calligraphy and other computer programs will only simulate variable line widths..MSPaint is a revelation..
I am glad you have demonstrated with such a high level of craft and artistic ability the capabilities of this "airbrush" in MSPaint

That fish is ..amazing..It glows... without effects /dodge/burn or any other computer quick tricks..
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joemo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:18 am     Reply with quote
Something resembling architecture, for a change. I wonder if the tops of the other two passages should be rounded. Will add some figures...

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joemo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:09 am     Reply with quote
Brake Check, cheers. I'm glad you have a useful shading tool (at last). I wish everyone would keep trying until they find something that works for them. You set a good example. :) Thanks for appreciating the fish. I wasn't sure I could do it without desaturating MSP's default colours, which is a pain in the butt kind of tedious. Found a way around it and learned something too (including: simply trust that it can be done). Re ambition and colour (my first post in this topic) I forgot about my first experiments in MSP, which were often done pixel-by-pixel:


'99
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:40 pm     Reply with quote
Yeah....I have bumped head-on into the "desaturation" of MSPaint Palette..That Pink is really Paink...I am glad "desaturation" of the native hues in that program can be done..and with such stunning results

I am an example?..>>>OK
1) There is a saying "Any one can learn to draw."
2) There is a saying "There is an exception to every rule."
I am dead set on proving that one of those statements is false...
So Far..
I am twice as good as I was...Now if that is true..then I am half way there..and if half way can be attained ...then all the way is very possible..
So I keep on keeping on
I appreciate drawing along with you..I am starting to understand that shading ..half tone..that you did on the architecture..I am trying squares of "shading" to see if I can duplicate the tones and values..
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FallDamage
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:53 pm     Reply with quote
Joe, that last spaceman image gives me some serious nostalgia for the old dos games. Your treatment of the stars and simplification seems drawn almost exactly from old school space quest. I like it.
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joemo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:47 pm     Reply with quote
I wanted to post something tonight and my hot candidate crapped out. Instead, the drawing of the two kids (above) reminded me of this (from earlier this year):


070313

Brake Check, LOL@"Paink", that colour is way too much, agreed. Interesting you mention several points that I decided not to mention earlier (today), because constant praise goes flat (reminded myself of that). I've been thinking of a book called "Drawing on the Right Side of Your Brain" (or something like that), of all the things I've heard that say likewise "any one can learn to draw". Obviously there are lots of ways to see - mass/volume, line/vector, value/hue - and lots of ways to do. Personally I don't care what mode it is (some people do care) I just know I'm happy doing and I'm happy if the result makes others happy (someone mentioned this recently in another thread; ditto for me). Most people seem to defeat themselves before they start (they want a shrink-wrapped DVD, not a blank canvas staring them in the face?).

You're definitely "twice as good" as you were, I agree. All along I've been chuckling to myself and muttering things like BALLS, TENACITY, CHUTZPAH, because you haven't given up where others would. I know I've given up at times. So kudos. I appreciate drawing along with you as well, and I appreciate having this space - 'cave wall' (courtesy Sijun) - for us to plaster. That reminds me, I meant to do some knockoff 'cave paintings' (some of the originals were sprayed on, I think - LOL), need to dig up some references...

FallDamage, I hope nostalgia is a good thing <grin>. I have big gaps in my knowledge of computer games so any resemblance is coincidental likely (I'm not familiar with "space quest"). Glad you like. :)


Last edited by joemo on Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:10 am     Reply with quote
I made progress when I realized there isn't any "easy" or "quick" way to learn this..
Traditional techniques..perspective, shading and proportion..
Those are what I am learning..It is sometimes tedious, boring and the rewards are slow but Now I am starting to go forward..rather than kid myself about an "easy" way or that I might have some "latent talent" that will be suddenly evident or that an untrained brain and hand will become instruments of artistic genius ..because I have deigned (tra la) to finally meander a pencil around a piece of paper..All of these miracles and marvels will thus relieve me of having to learn..proportion, perspective and shading..
And Practicing Daily.
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joemo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:53 am     Reply with quote
Break Check, glad you've settled in for the long haul. :) I happen to know that native 'talent' is no guarantee of success either. I was born an artist (so to speak) but my family had other ideas: 'We'll have no artists in this family, thank you very much.' Tortured artist stereotype ensues. :P Love that quote from Georges Braque: "I never decided to become a painter any more than I decided to breathe." :)

Large 'doeful' eyes aren't uncommon so I didn't see them as a problem (unless aiming for strict realism). In the same vein (ie. improvement), I realize now that working in MSP (no layers, limited undo) forces me to THINK about what I'm doing. I imagine thinking accelerates learning. :)

Quotations... googling Space Quest got me into my own nostalgia kick. Here's one for you, Break Check, from a favourite book (Dreamers of Decadence; I don't agree with the heroism sentiment but 'fear' or something like it is often a problem, for me):

"Artistic creation is an awe-inspiring commitment, a sort of silent, solemn duel in which the mind has to be concentrated in a fearless discipline." - Henry de Groux

Now where was I...

1. Discovery draft (with lots of nice texture that I should have worked with instead of removing). My first thought was "crypt":



2. Repeat of earlier post/image (above). Unlike 1, the value of the facing wall (the lighter one) and of the doorway at the top of the stairs are too close. Like one of those 'trick' photographs/drawings, the inner (black) archway sometimes resembles a cardboard cutout with a hole in it:



3. Finally<!>, here's that "hot candidate" mentioned above, which is still way too "precious" (the word I'm using for overworked to the point of being stale). No references, will go as far as I can without them.



4. What's a "crypt" without a dead person. That's how the reclining figure got there. I guess there's also a metaphor in this, one that I didn't consciously apply. Before I get to that: I plan to add four more figures (two left, two right), and to somehow work out the stiffness of the figures (bad pun). The background figures are too dark (100% black outline), temporarily. I was happy I at least survived the fabric/drapery stuff (I didn't give up) - then realized that 'centre stage' crotch really needs fixing.

5. Speaking of parents, a little story (as promised). A couple weeks ago one of the neighbour's kids (under age) downed a 26 of vodka (his 'reward' from the person he was babysitting for; how do you spell stupidity). I helped carry "the body", as I thought at the time, up the stairs (200 lbs, big boy). His parents wanted to let him "sleep it off". I thought that was a really stupid idea and called an ambulance. At the hospital his blood alcohol was .62, about a sixty percent chance of death, in adults (fortunately he didn't die). Yep, yep, yep. So yeah, in retrospect there might be more to this pic than a spontaneous crypt. Or not. :)


Last edited by joemo on Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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joemo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:05 am     Reply with quote
Couldn't leave it alone (with the posture off kilter and all). Here's the fix:



Man, I need a beer. ;)


Last edited by joemo on Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:29 am     Reply with quote
Talent..I am not certain what that means..I would not want the training and skill of a cardiologist to be described in the terms often applied to artists....*..raw genius..natural talent..* Yeah..bloody witch doctor..Even with natural aptitude and talent..doctors and artists are in for the "long haul."

Success..Ok..If you are a person who sits and stares at the first page of Jack Hamm' "Drawing the Head and Figure" and what really has you stumped is "page one, example one" ..The instruction says.."Draw an Oval"..and all of your ovals look like something mangled in a government shredder during a bo