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Author   Topic : "Brushstroke economy"
darkaxum
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:33 am     Reply with quote
What is your definition of brush stroke economy? I'm asking because I want to learn better brush economy.

Here's some examples of doing alot with very little.


http://colors.collectingsmiles.com/halfs/_1.jpg Cat by Mattias Snygg

http://bp0.blogger.com/_g8880ZZUidM/SCvo3d4ajlI/AAAAAAAAARs/K0aX4Q2fCSI/s1600-h/05_13_08_rembrandt01.jpg JasonRDunn's Rembrandt

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_i3ZxPnY2qGY/ST182Qz9ONI/AAAAAAAAAbY/z2ut0UFl-SQ/s1600-h/DS_colorthumbs.jpg Eric Chiang's recent color thumbs

I was thinking that the opacity of your brush and the placement have alot to do with good brush economy but let me know what you think.
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sometimes
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:53 am     Reply with quote
wasssup who used to be a member here is the best one I have seen so far when it comes to the simplified statement, u remember him or you weren't around at that time?
But at the same time I feel brush economy is overrated...double standard perhaps?
well maybe shitty answer but that's all I got for now lol
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darkaxum
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:05 am     Reply with quote
I vaguely remember wasssup, but I don't visit here often enough to remember exactly what he's done. I'll search the forums and take a look again.

It's funny that you say you think that brush economy is overrated because I would say that you have some pretty good brush economy in your work Very Happy
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Nag
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:46 am     Reply with quote
Here´s his gallery

http://www.supalette.com/coppermine/index.php
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sometimes
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:45 am     Reply with quote
yea Nag got it right above, that's his site. It has been hacked the latest year and isn't working very well, think it's only possible to see the thumbnails?

dark, yea but that's the thing I was going into. I think brush economy should be divided into two subcategory's. Cause at one side you will have brush economy as it is intended to be. Strokes put down on the canvas with a lot of though put into to it, applying every stroke gently and as precise as possible. Then there is this other category where I probably fit in which yes probably looks like brush economy but is instead like keep adding and deleting all the time, could start out with a horse but to end with something else... and yes mostly something that I find interesting and probably noone else, well nevermind.
There's something you should think of though if and when it comes to the simplifying, think it was spooge who said it and it was to keep it transparent. Can't remember exactly what he said but it has to do with depth, u understand?
hmm now that I think of it he might have told me in one of the chats at one time or was it in this forum? can't remember....

But advice is one thing, it is always better to experiment yourself.
Post in the speedy and see what happens after 100 experiments. Very Happy
oh my I am chatty today
gotta go
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sometimes
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:53 am     Reply with quote
oh correction.. his site seems to be functioning again, ahh feels like oldtimes watching those again. Smile
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Ian Jones
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:00 pm     Reply with quote
I remember Spooge talking about his technique, he mentioned that he tries to think about the shape and quality of each mark he makes, something he learnt from acrylics and their fast drying nature.
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Capt. Fred
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:27 am     Reply with quote
darkaxum, at the risk of sounding cheesey, there is a good proverb something like "If you seek simplicity, master complexity". Economy is the result loads of practice and experience (and insight). It's the appearance of skill.

A lot of us have tried to cut to a good basic understanding of how to represent things, to simplify things, because it is/was in vogue. This is difficult because you are trying to intelligently simplify things you can't draw in the first place. If you don't know how to draw a car well, how can draw a car economically? I can be too much to do in one go.

You can fake economy, but it's very superficial. It's like trying to appear more intelligent by wearing glasses and saying 'thus' a lot. To do so, make your mark-making very conspicuous and unapologetic. Be careful to screen ugliness from your own marks so to create a presentation of fake marks that make you look better. But my advice is forget about your stroke economy, it will happen to you as you practice representation. It will happen without you knowing, without you trying, you will act effortlessly and it will appear so, and that's attractive.

You need to practise until your visual system knows which observable qualities are defining features, and what are secondary features. Practice teaches us that some inputs usually result in certain outputs, so we can skip ahead to the next stage of the process, without figuring it out each time.

Many of the guys who are best at economy, and make it look easy, come from matte painting. They have a lot of experience creating realism in great detail, and have learnt what things are important and what things are not important, generally (how light hits things) and specifically (eg. defining features of cats), allowing them to mark only what matters.

Strokes are a very superficial feature of ability. They are a firm handshake as the result of confidence. You can try to skip to the superficial bits, but it's shallow, neurotic, untrue and meaningless. Remember, the strokes allure is that they tell you something honest about the process. Worry about your image, not about individual marks, it will all come with loads of observation-representation practice.

Jaded by post modern BS everywhere, I am not responding directly to you or your enquiry, darkaxum.
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Cicinimo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:23 am     Reply with quote
Capt. Fred wrote:

You can fake economy, but it's very superficial. It's like trying to appear more intelligent by wearing glasses and saying 'thus' a lot.


Hahaha! Awesome.

Totally agree with all you said!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:12 am     Reply with quote
Fred - hey, holy shit you are still around. Very Happy
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Returner
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:43 am     Reply with quote
funny bs free post Capt.Fred!
Quote:
To do so, make your mark-making very conspicuous and unapologetic. Be careful to screen ugliness from your own marks so to create a presentation of fake marks that make you look better
What do this remark have to do with art btw? Smile
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Mikko K
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:17 pm     Reply with quote
Excellent post Fred.. Good to see you around!
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Ben Mauro
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:18 pm     Reply with quote
you nailed it Capt. Fred.
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watmough
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:05 pm     Reply with quote
I'm gonna disagree slightly.

Even though in a lot of cases what Capt. Fred said is very true....brush economy can also be about representing a visual experience.....and not trying to render objects.

The way we see is actually a very messy affair and brush economy can also come from being honest about your own seeing and having an organised method....and not being fooled by preconceived ideas of what you are actually looking at.

I think there was a quote from Sargent talking about the more you know about what you' re looking at the more it hinders you.
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Lunatique
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:02 pm     Reply with quote
Awesome to see you around again Fred!

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think there's a visual design aspect to brushstroke economy that's tied to composition and leading the eye. One can enhance the intent of the composition by controlling how complex or simple brushstrokes are used in any given area of the image.

BTW, are those mp3's of your music?
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Max
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:55 pm     Reply with quote
True words, all of you. Highest truth tho *drumroll* : Everything works as long as you truly have fun doing it ;D
Stick around with your paint n pencil and you'll see, everything else is words and wisdom! wait...that's what fred actually said anyway... Very Happy
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mattyuk
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:55 am     Reply with quote
any news on why wassups site is down?
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M@.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:02 pm     Reply with quote
great post capt fred...
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kayanat
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:55 pm     Reply with quote
What is the difference between digital and traditional art? I've always been a bit confused..what is the diffrence between digital art and traditonal art?
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Last edited by kayanat on Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ranath
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:37 am     Reply with quote
kayanat wrote:
What is the difference between digital and traditional art? I've always been a bit confused..what is the diffrence between digital art and traditonal art?


well that's simple, isn't it? digital art is made with digital tools and traditional with traditional tools
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Petri.J
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:19 am     Reply with quote
Ranath wrote:
kayanat wrote:
What is the difference between digital and traditional art? I've always been a bit confused..what is the diffrence between digital art and traditonal art?


well that's simple, isn't it? digital art is made with digital tools and traditional with traditional tools


What if you make a painting digitally, print it on canvas and paint over it with oils? Does it become traditional digital painting? Laughing
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Ian Jones
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:36 am     Reply with quote
Petri.J wrote:
Ranath wrote:
kayanat wrote:
What is the difference between digital and traditional art? I've always been a bit confused..what is the diffrence between digital art and traditonal art?


well that's simple, isn't it? digital art is made with digital tools and traditional with traditional tools


What if you make a painting digitally, print it on canvas and paint over it with oils? Does it become traditional digital painting? Laughing


ditional, tradigital, tradigal... or just plain tragic
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M@.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:29 pm     Reply with quote
mixed media
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