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Author   Topic : "U n i v e r s e"
sometimes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:35 am     Reply with quote
I find this one rather interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Aurpr68uE
.
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sometimes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:36 am     Reply with quote
they are also talking about Universe being a giant hologram, some videos about it. Will post it later. Gotta watch it first. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:51 am     Reply with quote
Probably even more interesting cause it deals with they way we think things are. Perhaps there wouldn't be a bird unless we Collectivily decides there is. It came to me the other day that most of what we do and teach ourselves is part of that collective, whether we like it or not our mind is a collective of all from the past.
Holographic will be big in the future, they will make you see things differently. Commercial is just gonna be in the air and internet accessible everywhere. Well we will see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnvM_YAwX4I
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:02 am     Reply with quote
part 2 of above
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG9FO7JGWq4
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sometimes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:09 am     Reply with quote
Wish I could go visit the outer rim of universe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqJOIQWkfWA
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:52 am     Reply with quote
Amazing I am the only one that finds this interesting?
Anyway if the brain is the interpretor it's the only place where this world exists, inside your brain. I have thought about this all week in everything that I do.
what if the everyday objects we see really do not look like we are used to see them?
We cannot measure outside the human experience...

If you watched some of the videos. They can send a signal to the brain that makes us think we are looking at a picture.

You know in the science they are talking about making objects invisible. Some of the small building stones will then not reflect light.
I think the future will be interesting as hell.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:32 pm     Reply with quote
someone remind to not do anymore threads in the future, god. Laughing
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Max Ostap
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:50 pm     Reply with quote
Awesome thread, dont feel bad for lack of replies. I havent actually seen the visualization for the supercluster web done like this before.

I read the hologram article, and i can honestly say i don't get it right now.
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Sumaleth
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:47 pm     Reply with quote
sometimes wrote:
Anyway if the brain is the interpretor it's the only place where this world exists, inside your brain. I have thought about this all week in everything that I do.

It's not a new idea, that reality as we experience it is entirely in our mind. This has been understood for a long time.

And the idea that perhaps it only exists in our mind is a has been a mainstay of philosophy for as long. There are many variations from "what if I am the only thing that exists, and the universe is my creation?" to "what if my brain is floating in a tank somewhere and everything I experience is generated by a computer?". These are important first-year philosophy questions, because only once you get past the nature of reality can you talk about reality.

sometimes wrote:
what if the everyday objects we see really do not look like we are used to see them?

Well... they don't. What you "see" is absolutely, veritably not what reality is.

For example, your eyes detect electromagnetic radiation which, being light, travels at the speed of light. It's not instantaneous, and therefore everything you see is in the past. The further something is from your eye, the older it is in your view at any given moment. Likewise, the electrical signal sent from your eye to the vision center of your brain isn't instantaneous. The signals take time to get there and to form an image. So your brain isn't even seeing what your eye is seeing at the same time.

(Interestingly, the brain knows about both of those delays and has its own "predictive" processes to compensate. And its these predictive processes that lead to many types of optical illusion.)

Another one: reality has no color. Electromagnetic radiation has only frequencies. Color is entirely a construction of the mind, presumably to make interpretation of the image easier.

Another one: the blind spot. Your eyeball is kinda inside out, in that the nerves that collect the image information are on the inside of the eyeball. And so to get that information to the brain these nerves have to bust a hole through where the image is being collected. This creates a blind spot in your vision. But if you look around your room you won't notice the blind spot; this is because the brain extrapolates what is around the blind spot to fill it in.

(If you want to find your blind spot; close your left eye and look straight ahead with your right eye, and hold your finger out at arms length about 10 centimeters to the right of straight-ahead. If you continue to look straight and slowly move your finger left/right around that area you'll find a point where the tip of your finger disappears).

And all that happens before your brain even starts trying to interpret the image and give it all meaning. That's where the real crazy stuff happens. Wink

It's no big secret that we each see reality through the interpretation of information collected by our senses, and that the interpretation process is pretty loose. The brain can quite readily add things to what you see and hear, and take them away. Have a conversation with someone with schizophrenia if you want to know what reality is like when the brain gets a bit too involved in the adding/subtracting process.

This is all one of the reasons why science relies so heavily on on reproducible, verifiable experiments. You want to see something in as many brains as possible before calling it true. Wink

Quote:
If you watched some of the videos. They can send a signal to the brain that makes us think we are looking at a picture.

They can't do that now, they were just using it as an example. It's the old "brain in a tank" philosophical question that has been popular in science fiction for a long time. The Matrix is a recent example.

The first video was fun. The second one was pretty poor -- an inaccurate mix of pseudo-science, philosophy, and religion. (How can they say the brain doesn't have any direct connection to light, when the eyes are part of the brain? Newbies...)

The last video, which is taken from that "What the Bleep..." film, mixes actual science with philosophical new-age speculation. It didn't go down too well with the scientific community when it was released a few years back. Wink But the guys working on those ideas at least have some idea of what they're talking about, so it'll be interesting to see if their ideas go somewhere other than new-age conventions and expos.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:12 am     Reply with quote
thanks guys. Smile


It's not that new I know but it must be the way that I got to think about it after watching the visual representations. Feels like the brain only is a big reciever, I wonder about deaf and dumb people cause they, as we.... also recieve signals to the brain when it comes to objects?
I mean in some way when we touch things it is also signals coming through your body through the nerve system.

I think there is a scene in the end of Matrix where there is light flashing from all around him. Somehow I can see what they were thinking now, you are only a reciever. And blasted with light and soundwaves all the time, nothing else.
Weird at the same time is that in the universe you will not hear sound, can we see the light the same way in universe as we are doing here?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:48 am     Reply with quote
sometimes wrote:
Weird at the same time is that in the universe you will not hear sound, can we see the light the same way in universe as we are doing here?

What?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:52 am     Reply with quote
lol.

Well yea sound it is not the same as here, still you have signal but we listen to sound as it bounces off things. Atmosphere does that.
I'm talking about space, right?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:54 am     Reply with quote
you will not hear an explosion in space.
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Sumaleth
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:14 am     Reply with quote
Sound is a vibration transferred through matter. There's matter in space, but not much. Not enough to make sound work. If we'd evolved in space we wouldn't have evolved hearing.

Electromagnetic radiation works the same in space as on earth, but "natural" light (ie. from the sun) would reach you a little differently. On earth, sunlight has to get through the atmosphere before it reaches you, which slows it down a little--because it gets absorbed and then re-emitted by the molecules that make up the atmosphere, which takes a bit of time--and that same process changes the light a little (which is why the sky looks blue during the day and red in the evening).

Also, the atmosphere blocks or obstructs some frequencies. And it happens that the range of frequencies that we can see loosely fits into the range of frequencies that get through the atmosphere easily. Point being that if we had evolved in space we probably would have evolved different sight.

(just speculating)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:53 am     Reply with quote
I find this interesting, always have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHrwgRsX0BI
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Max
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:30 am     Reply with quote
If you wanna study yourself and the universe just sit down and be quiet for an hour Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:16 am     Reply with quote
If you guys like this suff, then you'll love TED (ted.com). It has not only the scientific studies, but also art and entertainment as well. Some are very profound and moving, or simply jaw-dropping.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:25 pm     Reply with quote
Lunatique wrote:
If you guys like this suff, then you'll love TED (ted.com). It has not only the scientific studies, but also art and entertainment as well. Some are very profound and moving, or simply jaw-dropping.


yeah, TED is awesome! I recommend it to everyone.. there's also a TED podcast on iTunes to automatically download new episodes...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:37 pm     Reply with quote
Yeah Ted is great!

But how about sitting down and reading some Kafka?

(just lobbying him cause I had a conversation about his work earlier this evening)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:49 pm     Reply with quote
I've just started reading 50 Philosophy Ideas, and #1 turned out be be "Brain in a Vat".
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:18 am     Reply with quote
Ha

Is it just a coincidence? Or are sinister forces feeding your brain with the information that will one day drive you mad.

I might have to get the physics and management books.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:23 am     Reply with quote
A few pointers: Daniel Dennett's "consciousness explained" is a good read. Certainly not the final word on how the nervous system forms conscious experience, but it deals with many of the issues mentioned here from a fully materialistic point of view. No magic, no miracles.

Edit: Dennett's book is wordy to say the least, and sometimes the point gets muddled among all the back-and-forth, so here's a much shorter article outlining the same ideas for the impatient:
http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldArchive/bbs.dennett.html
I'm not sure how readily that opens up to the layman, I only glanced through it cursorily myself, and it seems to omit much of the down-to-earth explanation that is found in the book.

Also I read this article a while back:
http://seedmagazine.com/news/2008/06/the_reality_tests_1.php
"A team of physicists in Vienna has devised experiments that may answer one of the enduring riddles of science: Do we create the world just by looking at it?"
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Sumaleth
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:31 am     Reply with quote
That seedmagazine article is one of the best articles I've read on quantum mechanics. If only all science journalism was on that level.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:54 pm     Reply with quote
Mark my words, in 50 years' time people will start transitioning into the virtual world. Brains floating in liquid plasma, directly connected to the internet.

F*ck all the extra dimensions and the old physical world. 24/7 online gaming - that's what it's all about!!! Very Happy

The real Skynet is coming like you won't believe.
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