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Author   Topic : "[IMG] Self Portrait - Need help with black hat :/"
Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
Posts: 1940
Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:06 pm     Reply with quote
Here's the self portrait I started a long time ago - for weeks and weeks I had remained nothing more than a sad little floating face. Well, after receiving my Wacom (yay!) I decided I would go back and try to finish this piece to get it behind me.

I've got a really big problem with the hat though. This was done from a photo ref and it was pretty dark at the time the photo was taken so my little hat is pretty much non-existent. I know I shouldn't work from photos in the first place but I had already started this one.

If anyone could offer me any advice on how you're supposed to color something that's black, I would greatly appreciate it!

Any other comments and crits are welcome too.

Thanks,
Beth




------------------
Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]
http://div.dyndns.org/beth/photography
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WICKED
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Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 275
Location: FL

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:09 pm     Reply with quote
sorry jezebel. I really wouldnt know how to help, but i just wanted to say the picture looks awsome =).
keep it up,
WICKED
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jHof
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Joined: 23 Jun 2000
Posts: 252
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:09 pm     Reply with quote
Your face isn't black. So there must have been some light source. Camera flash I reakon :P You could add the flash tones on it, or use a light source not seen to give it some soft highlights.

I like how you have it now actually. But, then you have to weigh in what I know compared to the correct way of doing it that someone else will explain.

[edit]Not sure if you were going to change anything else. But the eyes seem kind a blurry/hazzy.[edit]

-Hof

[This message has been edited by jHof (edited December 26, 2000).]
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EviLToYLeT
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Joined: 09 Aug 2000
Posts: 1216
Location: CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:14 pm     Reply with quote
Wow. How pretty! Anyway, for your hat problem... you got a reference picture that we can look at? Hehe.... the camera flash idea is great. just add a bit of brightness where there are folds or creases in the hat... which i assume there is. seems like a ebanie so try texturing it a bit with the brushes. And, if all else fails.... change the color of the hat. Purple or white would be good. Hehe. Nice picture though. Seems enlayas hair tut was useful. hehe
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
Posts: 1940
Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:22 pm     Reply with quote
I actually never read all of Enayla's tut Evil This is a technique I've been using to do hair on my paintings for a while, I've only just now been able to get a tablet to actually make it look decent, hehe ^_^



------------------
Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]
http://div.dyndns.org/beth/photography
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EviLToYLeT
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Joined: 09 Aug 2000
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:33 pm     Reply with quote
Oh yah.......what might help is changing the background to another color.
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SporQ
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Joined: 22 Sep 2000
Posts: 639
Location: Columbus, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2000 10:37 pm     Reply with quote
your hat being black is one of the bad things about working from a photo. your eyes are much more sensitive than any camera out there, and if you had a mirror in that scene, you would be able to pull out details that the camera cant.

but anyway, how do you pull it out? i would suggest that when painting from photo, only use it for generalities. form and light and such. but there is no reason that you have to follow it's tones exactly.

to pull the hat out, i would change the black to a dark gray, and work from there. i always find it easier to go from mids out to light and dark, than it is to go from black up to highlights.

overall, it is a very good pic. there are some small anatomy tweaks that could be made, but they are no big deal. the skin tones are also a bit washed out, but overall very nice.

very good peice, i'd like to see you refine it.

SporQ
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
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Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:23 am     Reply with quote
Ok, here's the reference pic I used... I better not get any crap about how funky I look damnit =P

As you can see, the hat is VERY non-existent in the photo, hehe... however I still kinda like how this self-portrait turned out. A huge reason why I like it is because the entire face was done with the mouse, the rest I added tonight with my tablet. I don't think I want to tweak anything on the face with my tablet just so I can say I did it with the mouse. I proud of that I guess





I'm looking down quite a bit more in the photo I think. And my skin color looks a little weird in the real picture as well (I was out in the snow and I was sorta sick that day :/)



-Beth

------------------
Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]
http://div.dyndns.org/beth/photography
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anticz
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Joined: 08 May 2000
Posts: 285
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:24 am     Reply with quote
Jezebel,
Wow, you're a very lovely girl. I really like the hair and feather boa. Skin tones look a little on the cool side but maybe that's just my monitor. The hat looks OK overall but seems a little disconnected from the rest of the image. I think this is because there's no shadow cast across the forehead but I could be wrong. You might also consider adding some brush work in there similar to what you've done with the Boa. Wish I had access to a computer with PS on it so I could do a paint over to show you what I mean. Only other comment I can give is the eye's look just a smidge to far apart. I can only assume from this image that you are absolutly stunning in person (hope that didn't sound sexist)

------------------
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Mike B. - Supervising Janitor
anticz.com
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anticz
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Joined: 08 May 2000
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Location: San Diego, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:29 am     Reply with quote
Now that I see the referance image it clears up alot of things. I'd still try adding a small shadow across the brim of the hat (artistic licence) to see if it feels correct. Also, my assumptions were correct. You're very pretty (and Talented!!).

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=======================
Mike B. - Supervising Janitor
anticz.com
=======================

[This message has been edited by anticz (edited December 27, 2000).]
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Kuzya
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Joined: 22 Jun 2000
Posts: 223
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:48 am     Reply with quote
hey bro .. what skin color pallete do you use ?? cause I've been having problems with pic the right soft skin colors like you used ...

thanx
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Spitfire
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Joined: 20 Mar 2000
Posts: 2009
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 1:52 am     Reply with quote
You look like one of my colleagues.

´elp.

Oh, the pic can use some more contrast, especially around the eyes. It would add to the "cold outside" look.




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Sincerely yours, I´ve disowned us.
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WICKED
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Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 275
Location: FL

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:02 am     Reply with quote
hey anticz stop hitting on jezebel! she has to be free to critic my images hehe =).
WICKED
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anticz
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Joined: 08 May 2000
Posts: 285
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:03 am     Reply with quote
WICKED,
LOL, just stating the obvious .


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Mike B. - Supervising Janitor
anticz.com
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Hazoc
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Joined: 18 Jan 2000
Posts: 50
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:32 am     Reply with quote
Very good! Add some white dots for eyes to bring'em alive.
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
Posts: 1940
Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 2:39 am     Reply with quote
Eeep! *blushes* ^_^

Thanks anticz! Someone else pointed out to me that the eyes were a little too far apart, now it's driving me crazy because I'm too lazy to fix it, hehe

I'll always be around to crit your work WICKED - no worries

And Kuzya, you said "hey bro" so I wasn't sure if you were talking to me or someone that commented on my pic. I didn't use any specific pallete, I tend to just open the color picker and select something I like. Then I just pick all the shades around it to lay down the basic shadows/highlights. To give any sort of blushed look or lighting effect I tend to use a really large, soft brush in a rich color, color all over the area where I want the highlights and then fade it until there's just the hint of color I want. I probably do everything the "no-no" way

It's 4:30 in the morning and I'm not tired... blech.

-Beth



------------------
Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]
http://div.dyndns.org/beth/photography
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Sumaleth
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Joined: 30 Oct 1999
Posts: 2847
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:45 am     Reply with quote
Whoa Jez, nice xmas present.

Pic is looking very good. At first I thought that they eyes were too far apart as someone suggested, but looking at the reference image you posted I think the problem is actually their -size-.

They are too small in your version. I think if you get them sized more accurately, and perhaps tweak the placement and rotations, you'll have a much more accurate likeness.

I also suspect that the nose and mouth are too small in relation to the size of the head.

Row.
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DirtyDigger
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Joined: 09 Dec 2000
Posts: 115
Location: NutSac, California

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 5:44 am     Reply with quote
I disagree with the sizing of the parts of the face that the others stated. The problem that I see is that the face is 'rounder' than in real life. It is much 'wider' than the reference. your face is a tad bit more oval and narrow which would bring the eyes closer together and make the lips the proper size and the nose fit in, in relation to the face.

Someone jump in and beat me with a coat hanger if i'm wrong.

Edit: By the way it is a GREAT pic don't get me wrong, I am stunned by your tones and the hair and 'boa' thingy and its texture. I wish I could get all of that down. It is very nice. But harshness wins out and I have to state what I see wrong as I did above (and I'm sure you appreciate).

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"I Hear High Heels!" - DirtyDigger

[This message has been edited by DirtyDigger (edited December 27, 2000).]
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OkkE
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Joined: 04 Dec 2000
Posts: 87
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:01 pm     Reply with quote
Wow! Looks realy great! Don't think you can realy make it better..
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
Posts: 1940
Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2000 3:30 pm     Reply with quote
Wow, I never expected to get so many comments/crits on this. Weee

I love this tablet, it makes me want to draw all the time. I'm working on a more detailed image (new composition) right now that I think a few people here will like. Hopefully I'll get the same sort of feedback when I post it

I really appreciate all the feedback everyone, makes me want to keep creating stuff =)

And nobody sounds harsh by telling me my proportions are off, that's why I post these things. I need to find out what I'm doing wrong so I can improve.


-Beth

------------------
Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]
http://div.dyndns.org/beth/photography
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WICKED
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Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 275
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:19 am     Reply with quote
keep them coming.
WICKED
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Spitfire
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Joined: 20 Mar 2000
Posts: 2009
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 2:34 am     Reply with quote
If you didnt expect any replies you´re either very naive or you stil dont understand how this forum works...

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Sincerely yours, I´ve disowned us.
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
Posts: 1940
Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:02 am     Reply with quote
Thanks WICKED, I will certainly do that. =)

I said I didn't expect so many comments, not that I didn't expect any. Although I'm not quite sure what you meant by your comment.

I only hope you're not suggesting the only reason I got replies is because I'm female

-Beth

------------------
Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]
http://div.dyndns.org/beth/photography
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Spitfire
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Joined: 20 Mar 2000
Posts: 2009
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 8:14 am     Reply with quote
That´s more or less what i was implying, yes.

But dont worry, your painting is fantastic nonetheless. So it´s well-deserved anyway



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Sincerely yours, I´ve disowned us.
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
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Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:21 am     Reply with quote
You just saved yourself a whoopin'

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mantis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:23 am     Reply with quote
you could add a ring of shadow below the hat, around the forehead. I also think that some added contrast would help. Perhaps just duplication of layer to color dodge and then adjust the opacity to your preferences.

------------------
I killed the king of deceit, wake me up in anarchy. I made a god out of blood, not superiority.
. Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit .

Arpan . B
arpan@Volatile.co.uk
currently down. . .
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Merekat
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Joined: 26 Dec 2000
Posts: 164
Location: Toledo, OH USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:54 am     Reply with quote
Hello!

I was going to wait until I had my own pic to introduce myself, but your portrait was just so lovely, I felt compelled to comment! I do agree with everyone's comments so far, but my suggestion is a bit different. I'm not sure, according to your photo, what the hat is made out of, but it seems to me from your photoshop work that it would be quite perfect in a velour or velvet. Thus said, why not make it so? The hat, first off, seems to need a rim to it, so a highlight off the edge would be nice to distinguish the thickness. But as for greater contrast in the hat itself, perhaps some highlights that would suit the texture of a velvet? That way, you can keep the lovely softness of it, and just add the final highlights to complete the hat without too much fretting.

Otherwise, much like I am of many many artists here, I am quite impressed with your work. ;} I hope you find as much enjoyment out of viewing mine as I did of yours. Keep 'em coming!
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
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Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 1:24 pm     Reply with quote
Thank you very much Merekat! What a compliment

I really appreciate it and I look forward to seeing your work!

I've already jumped face first into a new image and I'm afraid if I go back to fix anything on this self portrait that I will lose my inspiration for the one I'm doing now. After I finish this new piece, I will go back to this portrait and see what I can clean up =)

-Beth

------------------
Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]
http://div.dyndns.org/beth/photography
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