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   Sijun Forums Forum Index >> Archive : Sep99 - Dec00
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Author   Topic : "finalimage once again CRIT"
mr.wonton
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Joined: 22 Jun 2000
Posts: 36
Location: sf,ca

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 3:04 am     Reply with quote
ok, my second try to post the image in the body. Thanks everyone!
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Zoso
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Joined: 23 Dec 2000
Posts: 132
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 4:51 am     Reply with quote
I like it! The lighting gives it a real nice feel. Good stuff!
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waylon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2000
Posts: 762
Location: Milwaukee, WI US

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 9:03 pm     Reply with quote
Ooh, very nice! You did a great job adjusting the color, and I like the extra detail you added. And it looks a lot more like it's under water. Woot!
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Plouffe
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Joined: 17 Nov 2000
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 10:33 pm     Reply with quote
um i have seen this image tooo many times in the last week i think or in the last few days. How come you dont just put it in the same POST instead of changing everytime... kinda bothersome if you know what i mean
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arniemg
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Joined: 25 Dec 2000
Posts: 107
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 10:46 pm     Reply with quote
great handling of technique,
but i think it needs more color.
green consists of yellows and blues. show it and use it. it will make the pic more interesting to look at.
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the_monkey
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Joined: 20 May 2000
Posts: 688
Location: BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2000 11:06 pm     Reply with quote
neato!
kinda reminds me of castaway, u know when tom is in the cave, looking out at the trees....except everything wasnt green.

todays lesson is not to do drugs.
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spooge demon
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Joined: 15 Nov 1999
Posts: 1475
Location: Haiku, HI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:26 am     Reply with quote


Wonton has asked for a crit privately, but I thought I would answer him here.

I have said a lot of times that something might have too much contrast or "bounce" a lot, this is a good example. If the idea is to convey size, you have to follow atmospheric perspective closely. And this is even truer with something underwater. The edges also get pretty soft. I know this is really brief, but you see the difference between wontons and mine is the amount of contrast as you go back into space. You might say, but I need to use different values to show detail, fair enough, but the difference in values can be extremely small. This is how to get it looking "big"

Also play up the differences is scale between the objects close and far away, and this especially includes the lights. The close ones should be bigger than the far ones, and the far ones could be starting to diffuse somewhat. Also the scale of the secondary forms on the trunks or whatever they are needs to recede. Also think that you are seeing a lot more of the structures in the back, so you might see what the ends of them look like.

hope this helps
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mr.wonton
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Joined: 22 Jun 2000
Posts: 36
Location: sf,ca

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:53 am     Reply with quote
thankyou so much forthe advice...I will keep posting!
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mr.wonton
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Joined: 22 Jun 2000
Posts: 36
Location: sf,ca

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 2:53 am     Reply with quote
Made the changes......what do uhtink?


thank you so much for replying!
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DirtyDigger
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Joined: 09 Dec 2000
Posts: 115
Location: NutSac, California

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 4:13 am     Reply with quote
All the pics above look good. I think your lighting should be a little more 'diffused' in your last pic there. it is quite bright for an underwater scene at that 'depth' from the viewer.

No offense to Spooge or you, but both still feel more like a forest scene than an underwater scene. There needs to be some sort of 'key' that this scene is underwater.

Spooge definetly conveyed what he was showing which is mass and size.

Not being a pro artist or knowing what to do about making it feel more underwater I can't help much other than point out what it looks like to me.



------------------
"I Hear High Heels!" - DirtyDigger
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mr.wonton
junior member


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Joined: 22 Jun 2000
Posts: 36
Location: sf,ca

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 11:41 am     Reply with quote
Is htis better??
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Kristiaan
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Joined: 29 Dec 2000
Posts: 4
Location: Leeuwarden, Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 4:16 pm     Reply with quote
Isn't it so that in water, objects that are further away are more blurred (unless it is perfectly clear water)?
With objects above water, of the magnitude as in the pictures, most are at a great distance. So when you focus on one, you can see all sharp.. (actually, the human eye only needs to focus on objects within a range of several metres. When the muscles in the eye relax, one sees sharp any objects from beyond that range)
This is actually the only thing I can think of, regarding that key-element that was mentioned. You had the colors right; sunlight at great depths only exists of greenish shades - it is the only color that penetrates this deep.
Perhaps you can add some vague rays of light penetrating from above..
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mantis
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Joined: 03 Jun 2000
Posts: 359
Location: NJ/USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:47 pm     Reply with quote
how does spooge do that? HOW? I wish I had his powers to produce sketches like those. . .

------------------
I killed the king of deceit, wake me up in anarchy. I made a god out of blood, not superiority.
. Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit .

Arpan . B
arpan@Volatile.co.uk
currently down. . .
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spooge demon
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Joined: 15 Nov 1999
Posts: 1475
Location: Haiku, HI, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2000 11:52 pm     Reply with quote
hmmm... I can't go on forever on this one, but I think you missed the idea of atmospheric perspective. If you have access to a 3-d program, put some cubes with texture maps out on a plane and render it with generous fog. The farther you go away from the camera, the more the fog influences the local color of the object. A black cat of a roof a mile away is not black.

Forgive me if you already know this stuff, but are having trouble applying it. Look at your forms, and evaluate each one with respect to how far it is away from the viewer.

Your picture is a little more complex in that it is backlit, so the fog is not only obscuring, but a little diffusing as well, and that can make it a light source. The end result is really just that the fog is a lighter value than it would be without that bigass light source behind everything.

So, two things to summarize,

1) your values still bounce too much, there is too much contrast for it to read as "big."

2) Organize your values more in line with atmospheric perspective so that your forms will "stack" better. This is done by really thinking about where things are in the z-axis.

Example- The left foreground pillar is closer to us at the bottom. That is the way I read it anyway. You see in my sketch that there is a little more contrast and a little darker at the bottom? That shows that it is tilted away from us. Being more sensitive with stuff like this will start to make things read as more real and less like flat abstract shapes.


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