| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Topic : "America: Freedom to Fascism" |
Drunken Monkey
member
Member #
Joined: 08 Feb 2000
Posts: 1016
Location: mothership
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:11 am |
 |
 |
This movie is now hosted on google video in its entirety. Watch, discuss. It certainly isnt an easy thing to sit through (not for the lack of well done movie but because its so unsettling), especially if you are American, although it really makes no difference as this thing is global.
1 hour 40+ min
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud |
|
| Back to top |
|
Drew
member
Member #
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 495
Location: Atlanta, GA, US
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:21 am |
|
|
Holy crap, you sat through that entire thing? I got through about five minutes. It seems like it could have been a three page paper. Sooooo sllloooooooooooowwwwwwwww.
Is there a synopsis somewhere I can read? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Jimmyjimjim
member
Member #
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 459
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:49 pm |
|
|
Yet another reason to get Dubya out of there. At least we have a Democrat dominated House and Senate now....
A step in the right direction.
It still boggles my mind how fast the world went from sympathy for the U.S. to basically global distain since 9/11.
Beyond GWB, I really blame the international media. You generally hear most people in different countries say things like, "I don't like Americans, they're stupid, fat rednecks, but most of the Americans I've met have been nice.
So, who's to blame? Media propaganda determined to turn us into some sort of North American enclave. And, I believe stuff like this "Freedom to Fascism" and "Farenheit 911" is partially to blame for that terrible image. Seriously, why don't people make a big deal about the fact that Big Brother is basically alive and kicking in the U.K.? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Nilwort
member
Member #
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 319
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:40 pm |
|
|
Yeah, it could all be propaganda, but I'd rather have people expressing their 'subversive' points of view rather than blindly supporting how everything works in the world. If anything, it's food for thought.
I thought this one had some good points (disturbing if they're accurate). |
|
| Back to top |
|
gLitterbug
member
Member #
Joined: 13 Feb 2001
Posts: 1340
Location: Austria
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:44 pm |
|
|
| Jimmyjimjim wrote: |
| Seriously, why don't people make a big deal about the fact that Big Brother is basically alive and kicking in the U.K.? |
The hero usually chases after the villain. Henchmen are just there for support and die along the way for entertainment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Jimmyjimjim
member
Member #
Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 459
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:41 pm |
|
|
| Nilwort wrote: |
| Yeah, it could all be propaganda, but I'd rather have people expressing their 'subversive' points of view rather than blindly supporting how everything works in the world. |
I think it's fine to explore "subversive" points of view (although I think throwing in the term 'subversive' is inacurate).
What I dislike are the Michael Moores' of the world that disguise propaganda as a documentary. I don't see any contrary opinions or true exploration of the issue, just manipulative editorial. It doesn't have anything to do with whether the material is anti or pro-American in position, opinionated garbage is all the same.
Frankly, what disturbs me the most is that people can't make up their own minds, intead they rely on the opinions of filmmakers to do it for them. Not saying that is what anyone here is doing, but you cannot deny that amount of people that are easily swayed by it.
| gLitterbug wrote: |
| The hero usually chases after the villain. Henchmen are just there for support and die along the way for entertainment. |
So... if the Villian is the U.S., and the "Henchman" is th U.K.(if I get your meaning), who do you suppose is everyone's faultless "Hero"?
Last edited by Jimmyjimjim on Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
Nilwort
member
Member #
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 319
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:11 pm |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Frankly, what disturbs me the most is that people can't make up their own minds, intead they rely on the opinions of filmmakers to do it for them. Not saying that is what anyone here is doing, but you cannot deny that amount of people that are easily swayed by it. |
For the most part, I think people have their minds made up already before watching anything and the propaganda and/or documentary just reinforces that view. It just gives the perspective some momentum because it's been externally supported. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Novacaptain
member
Member #
Joined: 09 Jan 2001
Posts: 906
Location: Sweden
|
|
| Back to top |
|
Drunken Monkey
member
Member #
Joined: 08 Feb 2000
Posts: 1016
Location: mothership
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:43 pm |
|
|
I have a lot to say about this topic, but not while in school, not enough time.
Nova, i hope you realize that these retorts are referring to IRS codes. IRS Codes are not US Constitution. IRS Codes are not law unless compliant with constituion. Do you understand the difference? Did you even read anything in your own links? Or do you just link and sit back and feel smart n stuff?
What you posted is IRS FUD. Pay because we say so. Oh you don't wanna? We'll jail you then!
Being how you like posting links and not really quoting with sources here is a link for you http://www.wealth4freedom.com/16th.html
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud |
|
| Back to top |
|
Novacaptain
member
Member #
Joined: 09 Jan 2001
Posts: 906
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:21 pm |
|
|
Whatever, pay your taxes or don't. There's no need to get all pissy about it. Our laws make us pay taxes and that's all i know. 
_________________
It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice - Scooter |
|
| Back to top |
|
Impaler
member
Member #
Joined: 02 Dec 1999
Posts: 1560
Location: Albuquerque.NewMexico.USA
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:08 pm |
|
|
Uh... taxes are right there in the Constitution. Amendment 16.
| da gubmint wrote: |
| The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. |
of course, I never even clicked on the original link. So I may be talking about something completely different from everyone else. Wouldn't be the first time.
_________________
QED, sort of. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Drunken Monkey
member
Member #
Joined: 08 Feb 2000
Posts: 1016
Location: mothership
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:54 pm |
|
|
Nova, i am not pissy... i am bored to death with people who link and run. Either stick around to argue about it, or dont post. Enough of this lazy linking bullshit.
Impaler, no thats right, but it doesn't give govt the power for any new taxation... otherwise it would be in conflict with:
section 8
| Quote: |
| The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence (sic) and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States |
and then section 9
| Quote: |
| No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken |
So... unless the 16th is in conflict with the above - it really doesn't change anything at all. If you try to say anything about this in court you instantly get slammed because local judges will interpret this with complete disregard to earlier amendments. Supreme court however thrown 16th claim for income taxation out of court every time it was brought up.
But yeah, if you don't pay you go to jail. Or you could join http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Brown_(tax_protester)
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud |
|
| Back to top |
|
Novacaptain
member
Member #
Joined: 09 Jan 2001
Posts: 906
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:11 pm |
|
|
I didn't see much point in adding more writing because the websites i linked to are structured in your typical FAQ manner so unless the answers therein are outright wrong I don't see any reason to discuss them. Furthermore;
if
1 You get put in jail for not paying taxes and
2 Society thinks that you should be in jail for not paying taxes
Then: I, personally, don't really care what is written in the constitution. The law is there to serve society's current intrests not to keep age-old practices alive long beyond their usefulness. If most people agree that income tax is bad\unnecessary\unlawful then I think It should change, and I'm sure tax protestors like Ed Brown will be important in leading the way to such changes. However telling people that you can get away with not paying taxes is not what I see as the way to do it because if they get caught doing what they think it's their right to do, it could cause them a serious amount of trouble that they don't really deserve.
EDIT: In my defence i would just like to point out that the IRS page i linked to does not point to "IRS code". It bases the answers on the constitution and cites the specific cases where court rulings were in favor of the answers presented.
| IRS webmaster wrote: |
D. Constitutional Amendment Claims
1. Contention: Taxpayers can refuse to pay income taxes on religious or moral grounds by invoking the First Amendment
2. Contention: Federal income taxes constitute a �taking� of property without due process of law, violating the Fifth Amendment
3. Contention: Taxpayers do not have to file returns or provide financial information because of the protection against self-incrimination found in the Fifth Amendment
4. Contention: Compelled compliance with the federal income tax laws is a form of servitude in violation of the Thirteenth Amendment
5. Contention: The Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution was not properly ratified, thus the federal income tax laws are unconstitutional
6. Contention: The Sixteenth Amendment does not authorize a direct non-apportioned federal income tax on United States citizens |
What you said seems to be addressed in 6.
So there, now you can get off my back about linking and running. 
_________________
It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice - Scooter |
|
| Back to top |
|
Drunken Monkey
member
Member #
Joined: 08 Feb 2000
Posts: 1016
Location: mothership
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:10 pm |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Then: I, personally, don't really care what is written in the constitution. The law is there to serve society's current intrests not to keep age-old practices alive long beyond their usefulness. |
Well if you don't care about Constitution maybe you should go somewhere else. But then you are somewhere else. You are in Brazil. By the way the income tax goes directly to the Federal Reserve (an offshore owned corporation).
| Quote: |
| However telling people that you can get away with not paying taxes is not what I see as the way to do it |
Where did i say that? You wont get away. They will fuck you up. Its about putting up a fight. Legally it doesn't matter anymore - as movie says it they aren't listening.
And as for IRS Code
The whole site you provided is Internal Revenue Code. Internal revenue code isn't constitution... its a set of laws developed primarily by IRS (and passed by brain dead congress) and given to the IRS to enforce.
That little booklet i got that is titled The Constitution of the United States of America when i was sworn in as citizen isn't that massive tome of convoluted code that is titled Internal Revenue Code.
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud |
|
| Back to top |
|
Impaler
member
Member #
Joined: 02 Dec 1999
Posts: 1560
Location: Albuquerque.NewMexico.USA
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:47 am |
|
|
Hey, you're a citizen? Awesome. I thought you were on some sort of visa, or basically just one of the two or three million other immigrants who don't bother to fill out the paperwork. But I have a lot of respect for naturalized citizens; I've found them to be better, more active citizens than most Americans.
Still not gonna watch the movie, though. An hour and forty minutes of something called "Freedom to Fascism" just doesn't sound like a good afternoon to me.
_________________
QED, sort of. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Drunken Monkey
member
Member #
Joined: 08 Feb 2000
Posts: 1016
Location: mothership
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:27 am |
|
|
Yeah got sworn in in 2003. Learned so much about how USA works in the process... then joined Libertarian party and you can guess the rest. We are the gun toting militia that will one day stand up to the beast.
My family back in Latvia think i am nuts.
| Quote: |
| An hour and forty minutes of something called "Freedom to Fascism" just doesn't sound like a good afternoon to me. |
lmao
_________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud |
|
| Back to top |
|
Affected
member
Member #
Joined: 22 Oct 1999
Posts: 1854
Location: Helsinki, Finland
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:06 am |
|
|
| NESARA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
