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Author   Topic : "S-IPS vs S-PVA"
Tzan
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Location: Boston MA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:46 pm     Reply with quote
So my now 7 year old monitor is going 110% fuzzy for a few seconds then goes back to normal. Its got me researching a new monitor again.

So the IPS has that purple black thing, worse pixel response, but better colors and viewing angle.

PVA has better black, faster pixel response, worse viewing angle but maybe not a big problem for the smaller angle if your head is one spot.

- I dont need print quality color, I do print a few things each year but its not critical.

- I do play more hours of games than doing art.


These are the monitors I've been looking at.

NEC 2190 UXp , 8/16 ms , S-PVA

NEC 2190 UXi , 10/20 ms , S-IPS

NEC 2490 WUXi , 8/16 ms , S-IPS

Eizo S2100 (not L997) , 8/16 ms , S-PVA (edit)


I'm really not sure about getting a wide screen. Think I really want a "normal" size screen.

There is a nice thread here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y

Where they rate the NEC WUXi wide screen and the NEC UXp high in several use categories. They even rated the UXp over the UXi, the UXi wasnt even on the list.

I havent really been able to find comparisons with the Eizo.

Formac doesnt sell the Extreme version in the US I think, so dont even go there Smile The classic is listed as P-MVA panels.

So I'm leaning toward the NEC 2190 UXp , S-PVA
The Flatpanels.DK page has this listed as a S-PVA but now ads and even the NEC site has it listed as "latest MVA tech". Weird. Unless thats just marketing code for S-PVA.

Is there really a question here? Well just tell me if I'm making a huge mistake. Since its been reviewed and rated well, I guess its ok.


Last edited by Tzan on Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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B0b
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:50 pm     Reply with quote
buy a formac 2010 Wink
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:02 pm     Reply with quote
You must own stock there Smile

Do you play games on yours? Looks like the response is not good on those. I havent seen a screen used for games to compare bad response time to what I would consider normal CRT.
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B0b
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:00 am     Reply with quote
i watch movies and play some games when i have the time, the response time is good enough for 60fps (human eye)
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Affected
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Joined: 22 Oct 1999
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Location: Helsinki, Finland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:54 am     Reply with quote
What I don't get about the whole refresh rate question is how anything beyond 16ms is actually helpful, since usually a TFT screen refreshes 60 times a second. Is there something I'm missing here?

I, too would be interested in recommendations for good TFTs - my 21" trinitron is going soft and is exhibiting ghosting. The sad truth seems to be that I'll be paying through the nose to get anything decent. I've been working on Apple's cinema display HDs lately , the 23" ones, and frankly I'm not terribly impressed. Purple shift in the blacks, generally I just get that TFT feel from them - they just can't compete with the CRT I have in brightness and comfort of use.

So, Bob keeps puffin the Formac, but I'd have to order it by mail and I'm really not very keen on buying a display without seeing it first... Any other options? I think if I'm going to buy a display it may as well be one capable of full HD resolution, since that's what I seem to be working on nowadays. Seems like the specs I want are going to push the price horribly high, though.
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:13 am     Reply with quote
Read thru that link I posted up there.

Affected wrote:
What I don't get about the whole refresh rate question is how anything beyond 16ms is actually helpful, since usually a TFT screen refreshes 60 times a second. Is there something I'm missing here?


The screen refreshes at 60fps.
Pixels on different panels types have a different response rates.
TN panels less than 10ms
IPS and PVA more than 10ms and panels made for better color control can be over 30ms.

The response rate is how fast a pixel can change from one color to another. So if the response rate is less than 16ms there should be no problem.

But if its more than 16ms, the panel throws up new screen data but the pixels just cant change fast enough. So you get some pixels that are not displaying the correct color.

Companies generally lie about the response time.



Quote:

Apple's cinema display HDs lately , the 23" ones, and frankly I'm not terribly impressed. Purple shift in the blacks,


The purple problem is from the S-IPS panel.
S-PVA panels have blacker blacks.


Quote:

So, Bob keeps puffin the Formac, but I'd have to order it by mail and I'm really not very keen on buying a display without seeing it first... Any other options? I think if I'm going to buy a display it may as well be one capable of full HD resolution, since that's what I seem to be working on nowadays. Seems like the specs I want are going to push the price horribly high, though.


I have no idea about HD.
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:51 am     Reply with quote
So I ordered the NEC 2190 UXp.

It was supposed to arrive on friday but it didnt. Fedex damaged it in shipping then sent it back to the seller. The tracker had it listed as out for delivery friday and then at 2:15pm back at Fedex damaged. The tracker has a 6 hour delay so I sat around all day waiting for the damn thing and didnt see the damage report until 8:00pm.

So I called the seller TekGalaxy today, I never heard of them before but nobody else has the monitor. They said they had none in stock so I got a refund.

A few hours later I was a few minutes away from ordering it at another place that was waiting for a delivery that would come in 1-3 weeks. Then the TekGalaxy guy called me! he said they had just recieved 3 monitors, 2 were sold already and he held one for me if I wanted it. So now I've got another coming.

While I had him on the line I asked about their dead pixel policy. He said if I didnt like the monitor for ANY reason, just return it in 30 days, and get a new one shipped out for free. Refunds incur a restocking fee of course.

So this Tek Galaxy place seems good Smile
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:38 pm     Reply with quote
Got it today.

1 stuck pixel but its 3" from left and 2" down, so its out of the way. You cant really see it unless you get a very dark area on it.

So I declare victory!
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B0b
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:07 am     Reply with quote
u can get a bit of Java that helps with stuck pixels, but if its a dead pixel then ur out of luck
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:23 am     Reply with quote
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Doing it now.

Green pixel still there after 20 min. oh well. Its not so bad.
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Affected
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Location: Helsinki, Finland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:21 pm     Reply with quote
Tzan:
How's the color shift on that NEC?

I've been looking at the LaCie 324 (http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=11034 ), which has a PVA panel, but I'm told VA panels tend to exhibit more color shift than IPS ones, and seeing as I find I'm pretty sensitive to that, it makes me wonder if an IPS wouldn't be my best choice after all, despite the purple shift in the darks... Anyone have experience with the 324 from LaCie?

Or maybe I'm better off trying to hold out as long as possible with the trinitron CRT I have and hoping something better comes out.
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:53 am     Reply with quote
This screen is a 21.3" diagonal, 4:3 ratio
The screen is 17" wide

When I sit with my head is the center of the screen the left and right 2 inches has a noticable change, this fades out over the next 2 inches. So the perfect area is about 9 inches wide. This really depends on the color.

This also happens at the top and bottom, your head may be closer to the top so the bottom will be worse.

The effect you see is a lightening of the area, as if there is screen glare at the edges, even in a darkened room. there is also a slight yellow tint.

So the effect is less on a lighter screen. I use AutoCad for work and use a gray background screen so its less noticable. The yellow shift is noticed on the outside 2".

I never had a chance to see this in person, or compare with the S-IPS before buying.

After downloading the monitor profiles the color is good. The only thing I needed to do was adjust the brightness down, it was set to 100, I dropped it to 70. I also adjusted the black level down from 50 to 47.2, I kept the contrast at 50.

If the CRT is doing the job I'd keep it. I would still be using mine if it didnt break. I havent spent any time painting yet. I expect I'll just get used to it over time. I paint in the middle of the screen.

When they say that the black area is BLACK, they arent kidding.

edit:
I just noticed the Lacie you are looking at is a wide screen. I was hoping by buying a 4:3 it wouldnt be noticeable, but it is. On a wide screen it will be more noticable.
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Affected
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:51 am     Reply with quote
Tzan:
Thanks for the info, my experience with TFTs is I find the color shifting very annoying, so that's good to know. The problem is I don't know any stores here that have higher-end TFTs on display, so it's pretty hard to get any idea of what a display actually looks like. I'd hate to buy blind...

I have two issues with my trinitron, the major one being that it seems to be going soft, even exhibits ghosting periodically, and the minor one being I can't fit full-HD video on it at 1:1 scale. I guess I'm better off waiting until it really dies and hoping TFT tech improves by then.
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:11 am     Reply with quote
Yeah I didnt like buying blind, I did check around but couldnt find any.

Good luck
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B0b
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:35 am     Reply with quote
my 19"CRT has given up the will to live still 12 years of use isn't bad..

was looking at getting another Formac 2010, but quite like the 1920x1200 res on my Laptop, so looked at 24" displays and HP do a pretty Decent display - the LP2475W @ 321.61 which is 40.00 less than i paid for my Formac!! crazy times
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VinceDN
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:21 pm     Reply with quote
I'm running a monitor built in a country that doesn't exist anymore Smile . Personally, I'm for CRT over de flatscreens, because they are dirt-cheap, have great colours, and I have the feeling they last longer. I've had this monitor for about 12.5 years and it hasn't given up on me yet.

If you really want flatscreen, I'd reccomend the AOC brand. http://www.aoc-europe.com/index.php. They're not Phillips or Mitsubishi but they deliver stylish, sturdy and very flexible monitors. Just make sure you pick a right model for your needs.
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:04 pm     Reply with quote
B0b wrote:
my 19"CRT has given up the will to live still 12 years of use isn't bad..


Wow 12 years is good. Mine went 8 years, so I have no complaints.
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B0b
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:45 pm     Reply with quote
thanks vince, but TN panels arent really for me, i prefer to work with a full spectrum of 16.8 million colours than 230,000 Smile

Tzan, i had a Mitsubishi that went after 2 years so i had to dig my old 19 out of the garage, im supprised it still worked after being sat in there doing nothing, but i guess it decided its time was up, it went blury and now it just shows a bright spot on the screen Sad

i plan on getting the LP2475 next week and using it as my main screen and shifting the formac to where my 19 was..
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ianucci
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:13 pm     Reply with quote
Bob that's a good price on the LP2475W, where do you shop?

I'm looking to get a new screen and I had all but decided on the DELL 2408WFP.
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B0b
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:10 pm     Reply with quote
direct from HP, i ordered it Friday, they said 9 days and then 2-3 shipping, but it arrived yesterday.. it took me a while to calibrate it, but its now up and running and AWESOME!!

excuse the clutter on my desk, im having a clear up 2moro


i made a Hood Very Happy


Last edited by B0b on Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ianucci
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:44 am     Reply with quote
Thanks for the reply B0b I think I'll be getting one too as I cant get a good price for the Dell now and the HP looks to be superior anyway Smile.
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B0b
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:11 am     Reply with quote
there are 2 prices on HP's site, if you get the one that says 460 keep looking
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ianucci
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:53 am     Reply with quote
Got mine today and its awesome Smile.

B0b have you used a spyder or something like that for calibration? I'm wondering how much difference it would make to the colour accuracy using one of those sorts of devices over the HP calibration software which is all I have at my disposal.
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B0b
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:11 pm     Reply with quote
not sure if this will help you at all

go into the monitor menu - color - custom color and use the following

R = 251
G = 235
B = 242

Spyder 3 is the only one out of the spyder family that will touch wide gamut displays
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ianucci
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:54 pm     Reply with quote
Did you get those values from tftreview? I tried those out and their contrast and brightness settings and it does feel a lot nicer now.
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B0b
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:12 am     Reply with quote
yeah, both my screens look pretty much the same now..
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:50 am     Reply with quote
Nice job on the hood Smile
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B0b
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:58 am     Reply with quote
thanks Smile there's a how to on my Blog Smile
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CarlE
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:16 pm     Reply with quote
I recently bought myself a new Eizo TFT-monitor and it is the best buy I've ever done. It's a bit pricy, but if you're working with pictures/arts there should be no hesitating.
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