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Author   Topic : "The 3d thread"
durgldeep
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:09 am     Reply with quote
Quintus Dias wrote:
durgldeep, how's it going with Blender? I like what you have there, architecture stuff is always good practise. What version do you use with Blender?
I can help you with cast shadows if you want.
Btw are you over at Cgsociety? I made the speed session this time overthere, sure is good practise to model something from a list with time limit. If you want I can give you the link so you can join us overthere? Smile


[sigh] Sorry for disappearing. Haven't found a way to stop life from interfering - but I will never give up! Wink

Thanks for offering to help with shadows. I should have remembered the description, "post questions or ask for feedback", and asked for help [/blockhead].

Had a bit of drama with Blender ("latest beta"): new install locked a desktop icon. Long story short: blew everything away and reinstalled 4.49...

Quite sure I have a cgsociety ID - but my main project/focus is parked here already. And the break turned out to be a good thing: I thought of a way to solve the story/pacing problem (knew it existed, just couldn't get perspective on it). Combining two stories into one easily doubles the pace and makes the plot more intense/interesting (separately they were boring even me, hehe).

Switching to SteamPunk BookCover seems a good time for me to go do what I'm *supposed* to be doing. Knew I needed a break (from the other stuff) and this thread was a lot of fun. Smile
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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:00 pm     Reply with quote
durgldeep, yea things sure do take time, knowing that you are working on a story aswell I am sure you got your hands full.
Yea I should work more on the steampunk bookcover though Smile
Think I am having some ideas when it comes to illustrations for my site, guess that will be a future project though.

Tennis raquet made for the speed sessions, always good to try out some different things. In this case it was the strings making it complicated to finish it within the time limit....
pretty bad texture work, I know. lol
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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:49 am     Reply with quote
Made a new texture and tried to make a more appealing illustration, a bit dark though.
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Tomasis
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:59 am     Reply with quote
matthew, wow that last is awesome. almost like a photo Shocked
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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:07 am     Reply with quote
Tomasis, you think? You are very kind. Very Happy


Speakers, 1hour and 15 minutes.
Keep finding settings about texture, starting to make sense actually lol.
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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:17 pm     Reply with quote
Cannon Smile
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:56 pm     Reply with quote
Quintus Dias wrote:
durgldeep, yea things sure do take time, knowing that you are working on a story aswell I am sure you got your hands full.


"Hands full"? Okay. Feels more like thumb screws. Very Happy
It's great though; the story has weight/density now; empty spaces
have disappeared (in the version that's running through my head...)...

Still watching this thread (of course) [lurk mode].
Tennis raquets and cannons - would like to see that. Who's got first serve? Shocked
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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:07 am     Reply with quote
Not sure this is the place to post 3d, feels like I am flooding when I do.
Anyway, been working on a horse lately, mainly for my site as a 3d resource.
The project was more difficult than I thought it would be, still not finished though. Mostly working on the texture now but there are some mirror issues since I didn't sculpt in mirror mode. lol

This is why I have been drawing horses lately, I try to visualize them in my head. Twisted Evil
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Tomasis
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:32 am     Reply with quote
wow it looks awesome!! it is hard to make organic models for sure..

i've been playing a bit with 3d lately.. it is tough.. im using Maya and its layout seems quite logical, maybe easier than Lightwave which I did use many years ago..
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:47 pm     Reply with quote
Quintus Dias wrote:
Not sure this is the place to post 3d, feels like I am flooding when I do.


I (for one) vote flood! Very Happy
Always interesting/inspiring, QD - a lot of work/effort so why not show it? Smile

Been meaning to tackle horses - so much to do! Smile
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Tomasis
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:08 pm     Reply with quote
yeah flood Smile so sumaleth makes this thread as sticky

man, mudbox from autodesk is so fun (similar to zbrush).. after a few hours, you got know all basic functions. easy program, it suits artists well who are afraid for advanced 3d.. using the program, it feels like you are sculpting in real life

it will be easier for me to learn more in 3d realm when I play with animation, lighting, material.. it will be some day in future.. it would be fun if we make a short animation some day..

enough of rambling


first day of mudbox
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:10 pm     Reply with quote
Quintus Dias wrote:
yea you know they have this hardcore modeling challenge over at Cgsociety and the detail that they can create with sculpting is amazing, hope to get there some day.
durgldeep, u know I thought I could show you the multiresolution, better work with the latest beta though. I currently use the official 2.54 beta, been thinking about som latest builds because the obj exporter doesn't work in this version.
Anyway, the multires is pretty sweet; I managed to get up around 2 million vertices with it but then it lags. oh wait scrap that I just tried with 1.5 million which was enough for my 4GB Ram... However I previewed lower and managed to get to 6 million in sculpt mode.... crazy lagging though Lmao.

This one here is around 100 000 vertices, subdivide with simple and it keeps the base structure.


Another go at 2.54 beta... Smile

QD, I'm not sure (still not sure, hehe) if multiresolution is meant to subdivide like Sculptris (which adds polys in areas of finer detail).
Likely I'm missing the point (not hard for me, lol). Was able to duplicate your cube (above)
but see no signs of automatic subdivision - though maybe that's not the point of multiresolution?

Tomasis, very cool first effort. Smile I really like the sharp/chisel-like angles/grooves in the horns (and sharp detail/texture overall) -
and devils/demons are always cool Smile. I see mudbox offers a free demo...

Interesting idea for a short animation, hmmmm...
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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:35 am     Reply with quote
Thanks guys you guys are very kind. Smile

Tomasis, wow that looks pretty cool. Yea true takes lot of time to learn a 3d package software, I prefer if one have all ingredients in one software though. Does mudbox have polygon modeling aswell?
Seems like you have added a lightsource and everything, neato. Smile

durgldeep, as you say there is no automatic subdivision, not sure if they will add it in later betas. Guess there's pros and cons without it though, I like that better than sculptris because then you can control the polygon amount.
But one looses detail and then you have to subdivide further into the model process. I am starting to think that the pro's with multiresolution is that you can have a rich detailed mesh over a low poly mesh. Hence lower resources used if you gonna texture paint and such.

I tried a rich vertices amount and then texture paint on this one, believe somewhere around 100 000 vertices. Not that much actually and the texture paint became laggy and slow, guess that's why some modelers save their low poly beneath. Hopefully one learns while trying. lol. Smile
1 hour sculpt testing...
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:53 am     Reply with quote
Quintus Dias wrote:
better work with the latest beta though. I currently use the official 2.54 beta, been thinking about som latest builds because the obj exporter doesn't work in this version.


(Belated) thanks for the heads up. Thought the obj import/export might be fixed in 2.55 beta (just installed it)
but nope - back to 2.49, yet again. Very Happy

Quintus Dias wrote:
But one looses detail and then you have to subdivide further into the model process. I am starting to think that the pro's with multiresolution is that you can have a rich detailed mesh over a low poly mesh. Hence lower resources used if you gonna texture paint and such.


By "texture paint" I guess u mean "vertex paint" (Blender), which is what I'm aiming for (experimented a bit already) - can't imagine marking seams, etc. just to get texture onto a model. Would rather paint directly on the model anyhow
(just my nature). Smile

Not sure why a high poly count is needed for vertex paint when an imported texture will fit on a single, undivided face...
or maybe I missed something (maybe large, flat areas must be subdivided before imported texture is applied?)...

Anatomy study and posing experiment (Sculptris model chopped into bits)...

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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:33 am     Reply with quote
durgl, there's different ways of unwrapping, try unwrap then smart project without marking seams. Works pretty good for high poly stuff and then you can texture paint on it once you have added a new image in the uv image preferences.
I really like that anatomy study, you are very good. Very Happy
Agree with you about the unwrap system, you know a back and front sometimes becomes different when you unwrap, it's like distorted which pisses me off with Blender. Apparently it counts from a vertex which is closest to the mark....hmm...


Messed around with particle settings, particle rain and some gravity settings but I ended up just with regular gravity.
Hmm I should try this for a logo perhaps....
Edit, lol I added it as a logo on my site. haha ok nevermind.
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:29 am     Reply with quote
QD, thanks, I'm still an amateur compared to where I want to be (or is that always true of everyone, hehe).

I really like the Pattern9, Pattern8, etc. images on your site. Used to do that with photos (make a kaleidoscope-like image, then fiddle with lighting, etc.). Like a Rorschach ink blot, lots of 'exotic' things to see (faces, architecture, etc. - "embedded objects" is the technical term, I guess). Um, I don't know what the "particle" stuff is but, ditto (enthralling). Smile

And the horse... I first thought "buckskin" (the colouring) and meant to check. Used to have a horse and wanted to know everything about horses - guess I'm not as rusty as I thought. Smile

Still pushing the current model/project (will wrestle Blender later; by then maybe there'll be no reason to wrestle [grin]); thanks for the notes, though (always good for future reference). Got the hands done; no creases (if I start I'll never stop). Guess I'm building a bank of components that can be arranged, welded together, and tweaked at the seams...



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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:53 am     Reply with quote
durgldeep, appreciate that you like the patterns thank you. Smile , started years ago when I experimented with speed paintings, here in Sijun actually. Smile
Thought some good could come out of it and now I am saving some of them to use as textures for cloth for 3d or wherever they would fit... Feel free to save some and use them if you want. Smile
Gonna work on the quality on the next patterns that I will add, perhaps need to make them bigger when I create them.

True with pushing the skills, I don't stress it these days though.
And with 3d there's some many directions to go aswell.

durgl, I really like the anatomy study that you are doing, wonderful. You gonna use him for your project?

btw buckskin, do they have black hair? Not sure if one can have a white horse with dark hair?.... looks more attractive to me though... lol haha I suck.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:24 pm     Reply with quote
lol quite addicting, tried more composite with this one.
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:19 pm     Reply with quote
Quintus Dias wrote:
btw buckskin, do they have black hair? Not sure if one can have a white horse with dark hair?.... looks more attractive to me though...


Looked up buckskin (re my first guess):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckskin_%28horse%29
Seems buckskin is "black points" only - so yeah, black hair/mane (and 'boots'). Smile

Interesting re white horse with dark hair - exactly what I was wondering, uh, a year ago (dug this out of the archive), hehe.
Google says: grey (Arabian) with black mane is possible... but no sign of a proper white horse with a black mane. Hmmmm... Smile


Last edited by durgldeep on Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:45 pm     Reply with quote
Edit: Just tested vertex paint on a small, very high poly model. The sharpness I want isn't possible so hand-painting models is a dead end. No biggie - good to know before going much farther. Smile

Quintus Dias wrote:
durgldeep, appreciate that you like the patterns thank you. Smile , started years ago when I experimented with speed paintings, here in Sijun actually. Smile
Thought some good could come out of it and now I am saving some of them to use as textures for cloth for 3d or wherever they would fit... Feel free to save some and use them if you want. Smile
Gonna work on the quality on the next patterns that I will add, perhaps need to make them bigger when I create them.


Thanks - I think it's cool that you're offering free stuff at your site (I was doing similar, until blogging made web publishing kinda redundant). Am realizing I haven't thought about (premade) textures for a very long time - completely forgot about this stuff (see below).

I like how the "particle" images suggest cities or huge warehouses (graveyards, even) but kinda metaphysical too, like the guts of a strange engine or machine (like a motherboard in grand scale) - no clue how it's done but I like. Smile

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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:54 am     Reply with quote
Possibly useful, videos that clarify vertex paint:

Vertex Painting In Blender
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6dqijeAjBE

Vertex paint texturing tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqtqnVQ_UJk

Blender 2.5a1 3d paint demo (no sound)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_65BvL_bw

Re the second video, last I knew (last video I watched on the subject) textures had to be painted in an external program (such as photoshop), then saved as a separate file. Now it's all-in-one (the unwrapping/painting is all done in Blender), which doesn't seem so bad. Smile
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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:35 am     Reply with quote
durgl, Sweet kaleidoscope picture, looks pretty cool. I have seen some of those tutorials before, I never found vertex paint to be any good though. You know you can get detail with texture paint, I think it is probably important to unwrap when you have the model at a low poly though and then texture paint the low resolution to subdivide and add levels after that.
I have made some mistakes with the horse actually, hopfeully I will learn for the next model lol.
Got problems with overlapping texture, mostly because I smart project on a high poly perhaps.... hmm.

Aha so that's buckskin. Smile I looked up info about white horses, most of them are grey and the white ones are very rare as I understand. The white ones are reddish white, guess I will call my 3d horse a grey with buck skin mane haha. Oh maan I bend the rules always, seems to be the standard eventhough I try not to. Ah well.

Don't you texture paint in Sculptris? I Found out that sculptris texture paint was awesome, I however didn't wanna rely on two different softwares. And.... they handle triangles differently when you import into blender.

Btw about triangles, I told you previously one time that it didn't had support. Blender and triangles.... there seems to be support but I am afraid I get different info from different people. All in all quads are more safe to model with in Blender, I would rather have the ability to divide a edge without affecting other areas, in Blender it divides the other close edges too which makes it uneffective.

Nice horse btw, you draw those in photoshop? Very Happy

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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:33 am     Reply with quote
QD, to me the horse looks spot-on for a buckskin (and research confirms it, hehe).
The other one (white with black mane)... I might include it in the Patel Grand story anyhow (that's what the drawing was done for); it is an alien planet, after all. Smile Oh: the drawing is vectors (done in Inkscape).

Thanks for the notes on triangles... One thing that put me off working with quads - something that stumped me earlier - was how to increase the number of quads (for things like ears) without using triangles. I just figured out how to do that (while watching the videos). Smile

That started me fiddling with 2.55 beta... very slow work, but a little bit of progress (below; crummy screen capture). Too slow, so I tried obj import again, this time it worked (maybe tomorrow it'll stop working again, lol).

Will be faster to rough the figure in sculptris (I have no prob with multiple programs), import, convert "tris to quads", and sort from there, I think. We'll see (think I've mentioned this before; maybe this time I'll actually do it). Smile

Unfortunately sculptris vertex paint doesn't work for me. Not sure if it's this machine or what (Win7) - tried reinstalling sculptris, etc. Just doesn't work. On the other hand, the newer version of Blender is a lot easier to use (though still kinda boobytrapped, lol). Smile

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Quintus Dias
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:54 am     Reply with quote
durgldeep- Agreed about the quads, it is a different kind of thinking when making detail. Hmm hope I will get my hand around it.
I had to try this with low poly then high poly over, this way you unwrap the low poly which in this case was a box. ...then you can paint on the high poly freehand, in multiresolution you just lower the preview which makes it smoothly when painting.
Pretty neat, gotta try this more.
Ok gotta go out in the snow now, you know we have -10 celsius here now. Has been for a week I think. 60 cm of snow. Talk about snowed in.... lol.
You have snow? Very Happy

I also use the 2.55 beta, feels more unstable than the 2.54 beta, very strange. I think they messed up the 64 bit or something. Got some topol errors. hmm...
Do you also have 64 bit?
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:02 pm     Reply with quote
QD, yes, we have snow (shhhhh)... Soon as I yell *we got snow* the temp will spike and it'll melt, right? lol

I do have 64 bit but downloaded 32 (don't know how much difference it really makes...? am clueless re tech stuff). 2.55b seems unstable, for sure. Twice, the menu/interface (all text and buttons) disappeared completely and three times it crashed when closing the program.

Again, will go with what works. Gimmie a blackened stick and a stone slab, I'm okay with that too. Smile
----------------------------------

Edit:
knew I'd find a sculptris/blender vid sooner or later (below). Not the process I would use (to combine parts) but anyhoo... good seeing someone else's work/method.

Human modeling Part 12
(Using blender to combine two meshes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZDUeQXa1t0

Finished model is pretty damn good:

Human modeling Part 16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o2KbtPdm_U
----------------------------------

Edit too:
Couple more from the same artist (- horsie!):

Modeling a horse Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKX_wAixTGc

And combining parts, again:

Modeling Rale the Otter part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BENtCyIRYWY
----------------------------------

Edit three:
Some top notch work/demos (inspiring):

Zbrush [Edit: fixed broken link]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyu4amqR2b8

Character modelling and texturing demo reel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9iMZfwfHoE

Armored (knight/horse; animation)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpPAiLfm3u0


Last edited by durgldeep on Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:29 pm     Reply with quote
Edit: wow, just discovered (in sculptris) u can work on two meshes simultaneously; Ctrl+Shift and click the second mesh. Cool, no more manual overlap/alignment. Smile
-----------------------------

Needs more work (later). Smile

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:20 am     Reply with quote
Quintus Dias wrote:
I had to try this with low poly then high poly over, this way you unwrap the low poly which in this case was a box. ...then you can paint on the high poly freehand, in multiresolution you just lower the preview which makes it smoothly when painting.
Pretty neat, gotta try this more.


QD, I think I'm starting to understand (yes, I'm slowwwwww [sigh]). First re sculpting: looking at the meshes in the "Zbrush" video (link above)... apparently using two meshes is standard practice [Edit: wrong!] (how else could the base mesh be so simple and the finished model so detailed). Idea

Edit: woops, not so simple as that; just stumbled onto "normal mapping" (back to "normals", as mentioned earler):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping


Re colour/texture paint: still not sure how painting/projecting high detail through a low poly mesh [wrong again!] is possible (precise placement - of a crease, for example - would be hit-and-miss?). Likely I should try it first, before asking questions, hehe. Smile

Re blender stability, lol@ this comment (re "Ptex support"), "Excellent! Blender just keeps on getting better and better! Features are growing faster than Blenderís stability Wink"
http://www.blendernation.com/2010/08/21/ptex-support-being-added-to-blender/

And re "I love Roman stuff" (previous page), I thought of using Roman designs as a base for one of the cultures in my story (separate thread). Thought Roman stuff might be stale by now ('done to death') but might be a good place to start... Smile
--------------------------------

Edit: after a bit more digging, discovered why I enjoy drawing 2D vectors (see spline) - now 3D too. Smile

Nurbs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurbs

B-spline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-spline

Spline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spline_%28mathematics%29

Flat spline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_spline


Last edited by durgldeep on Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:11 am     Reply with quote
durgl, wow the anatomy is really good, love the feet.
Yea you know, you can't never go wrong with Roman, might be the design of it; the pillars and props.
I am looking into better topology at the moment, making experiments as I go along. I think there's different topology when there comes to technical modeling and organic modeling. Thus I always have problem with clothing and making secondary meshes and still make the base mesh to work. Hmm.
My horse became a disaster, I might still use it for a illustration I have in mind.... I think I might start to make models in sections, they usually model cars like that to have control of the section.
Hmm Need focus on my illustration on my site, the idea is to activate all the different sections so I can start to promote the site. lol, probably need years for that haha.

You know, the best idea to get detail is probably to unwrap and mark seams and then paint it in Gimp, that way you can get a lot of detail in the texture. I miss old tools like the one that used to be in old versions of 3d studio max, texporter.... u remember?
I used to mess around with stuff like that back in the late 90s...
However the tools in Blender are pretty good, difference is that one has to work harder to achieve good things. The texture thing has been killing me for a long time, especially the distortion when you unwrap. That makes me pull my hair Lmao.

Btw You can download the Bowl1 on my site if you want, and then look at what I did with the unwrap.... Hopefully the model works, haven't tried it in another app. Haven't got any feedback either regarding the models. Hard to trust the beta versions sometimes, especially when the 2.54 beta had a broken exporter.....

sweet the weekend is on, here's a composite test that I made, mostly testing for now. Oh my oh my, my posts are getting out of hand, too much texting. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:49 pm     Reply with quote
QD, thanks. Smile
Interesting composite test (as always). Still no idea how it's done - and likely guessing is not a good idea, hehe. Smile

Re topology, for organic shapes (such as clothing) would it be easier to build the secondary model first? Then build the low poly beneath it? Or am I missing something obvious again (as I have several times already). Embarassed

Re 3D studio max, I've never tried that one. I think I finished two (beginner) tutorials in GMax (before running away screaming, hehe); that was a couple years ago. This thread is about the only sustained effort I've made in 3D...

Re unwrapping and texture paint, I think I'll get there eventually (as mentioned). Currently I'm having too much 'fun' in sculptris... also I'm learning about blender (and misc 3D stuff) without even trying. Inching along, yep. Smile

Re Roman stuff - I learned that horses can have a "Roman nose", lol. Not gonna try one just yet but have gone a bit nuts about horses, suddenly (and again) - see what your horse did, QD? Very Happy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_conformation

The learning curve was steep (ouch), and this is only a first pass (lots of detail still missing, obviously):

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Posts: 387

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:51 am     Reply with quote
durgl, thank you. Smile the same back at you, that horse is really something. Smile
Regarding clothes, hmm back in the day you used to model the clothes as a base mesh unless you needed something to be displayed beneath. Hmm not sure as the best approach, I have got stuck at some levels now I believe and it takes time to dig deeper into it.
....Pose armature (bones) have been taking up my time recently, weight painting feels primitive when there's high poly involved.
...Then again, I might be doing something wrong haha. Twisted Evil

Haven't heard of a roman nose before, lol there's always something new to learn.
I Love that link btw, must say that I prefer arabian style on a horse. Then with mixing in elements, which to me are graceful. It is rather strange though, I could have sworn I have seen paintings with dark mane and buck skin features on a white horse. Hmm;
Then again, arabian brown horses are actually like that too, very graceful heads on those.
More experimenting with composite and stuff.
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