[Steven Stahlberg]

Hey, take it as a compliment, the thread started when you were mistaken for some sort of genius at freehand drawing, like better than Adam Hughes or something. If you want to find the silver lining, that could be seen as kinda cool. Maybe you don't give yourself enough credit, maybe you're better than you think.

btw I didn't complain about your site or tastes, just argued with some people here who said they thought it was freehand, when I thought it wasn't. Sorry if I caused you any kind of discomfort.

[Sukhoi]

It's quite funny how this thread is a good example of a regular day at Sijun. We simply get carried away, and sometimes step on eachothers toes, even though that was never the intention. I don't see jealousy and anger as much as I see interest and curiousity in this thread.
We discuss these issues without knowing the basis of the sourse, and we do so because we can't help it.

That's how I see it anyways.....

Sukhoi

[eyewoo]

Carried away... perhaps... Certainly the artist did not originally present the animation, so no can accuse him of trying to make unfounded claims...

Now the artist has made a statement and claims that he did not use a tracing technique of any kind. I wrote earlier that if the artist made such a statement I would take him at his word. And so I do...

[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: eyewoo ]

[aquamire]

Hmm, Xod, if you didn't trace and did it the way you said you did, I'd have to say you've been developing a very analytical eye.. how did you pick your colors?

For someone who doesnt claim to be any sort of artist, I'd say you could have tremendous potential if you were to actually go into study. Perhaps you should consider it someday.

[BooMSticK]

I still don' buy it.
I see this as a phototrace. I mean, come on - look at the other pictures on his site.
like this:


surely there must be two Xods'.

Not that anyone gives two rats ass worth what I think anyway... hehe
,boom

[good bye]

quote:

---

Heh. This reminded me of this one incident when I was in high school.
I was a huge anime/manga fanatic, and was completely immersed in Japanese culture(TV, film, fashion, music, history..etc).

One day, my oldest brother was talking about cars and Japanese products, I told him that all the American pronunciations of what they THINK is Japanese is waaay off(simple words like: Honda, kamikaze, shogun, sayonara, arigato...etc). He then glared at me and said impatiently, "Who the fuck cares? You and your Jap animation shit."

I think that sums up the typical American attitude regarding foreign cultures.

---

Americans aren't the only ones good at mangling other languages: http://www.engrish.com/

[Lunatique]

Hahaha! I've been to that site. Anyone who knows Japanese culture knows Japlish.

You ought to see what the Chinese do to English!

[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

[Kuren]

Pat - I know what you're talking about. I know the literal meaning of "oekaki". I was just saying, it was done in the paintbbs aptly named "oekaki". No more arguing please.

[Frost]

A friend of a friend of a friend told me this guy's for real. But I don't believe him. (uhuh)

ps - now you know why I keep my posts to a minimum.

[sineater]

Photorealism in oekaki (or rather, the newest paintbbs java applet program, sometimes referred to as rakugaki) isn't that impossible. Some mostly realistic pics by one artist can be found here:
http://www.unixdaemons.com/~7face/newart/bwgirl3.jpg http://www.unixdaemons.com/~7face/newart/4char.gif

The artist of the pics above uses a mouse, so I'm pretty sure there's no way to trace (no tablet.)

And a gallery of several extremely realistic pics can be found here, also done completely in the pbbs java program: http://oekaki.meo24.org/profile.php?u=kahow

And I believe two of the pictures Kuren posted are also realistically rendered in oekaki.

that any photorealistic pic can be rendered in a java-based program amazes me, and should be applauded for that alone.

[-HoodZ-]

and what have we learned from all this......thats right Zhang Ziyi is cute

sineater is right...the artwork itself is quite impressive for a java-based program...man these programs sure came a long way..

[Sumaleth]

Ahh, it's good the artist turned up to explain how it was done.

--

We went too far? I dont understand that comment. We found an animation of someone drawing a very accurate portrait using a method I don't think many of us had considered and it was only natural that we'd try to work out how it was done, and then to debate the merits of such an approach.

That's what the discussion forum is here for, if it was only reserved for "do I need a wacom?" threads it'd be a waste of space.

In the end it turned out to be "kinda traced", if not with the approach we had assumed. To overlay the photo every now and again to see if it's off gets pretty much the same result as tracing an image under the plastic. Well, it removes the need to visually guage proportions, angles and distances anyway, which is the same difficult step that tracing aims to bypass.

I have no problem with this approach, although personally I wouldn't do it since I'd like to develop my eye for proportions.

Row.

[Jason Manley]

gosh...step away from the forums for two weeks and look what Im missing out on. lol


you guys are hilarious...yes its traced IMO...most of the differences in the animation has to do with the paint quality of the image...watch the outer lines and edges...the outer edge does not move for the most part. its like a cookie cutter got filled in.

regardless...the easiest way to tell if its a photo ref pic is 1 color use and 2 the use of linework or lighting formulas to make forms....if the images have poor color like photos often do...well ya know...and if the image is as flat as a photo with no strengthening of forms or spaces...well there ya go again...

just for kicks here is another.....if the image has very undermodelled shadows then that can be a key that the image is from photo ref. i.e...if the shadows do not help to describe the forms..

you guys are hilarious...I love the drama...reminds me of a couple years ago when pierre had some photo traced demos up and he got reamed for em.

lol

j

[Hyperi0n]

oh God..EVERYTIME I come here I find a post like this.."OH HE COPIED THAT" "TRACER!" etc.. give them a break man..stop trying to take apart everyone's stuff just to find out if they traced or just posting your opinion.
It's almost you're using a if it's good,he must have traced mentality. You're not here to disect other people's stuff, even if they did trace or copy or whatever, they're cheating themselves... give it a break guys.

[balistic]

And bringing up the rear we have the hindsightful moralists who miss the point . . .

[Jason Manley]

lol

hyperion...contrary to what you said I do feel we are here to criticize and critique and dissect work of others so that we may have a better understanding of art because of it.

if someone finds a particular technique to be rather uncomfortable artistically they do have the right to speak up and they do have the right to feel that way....dont ya think?

the best part is when people feel things about such things and find out they are wrong...or right...and we all learn from the experience.

I would not be able to do what I do now if it was not for the "dissecting" of others works...including such tracers ad bernie fuchs and bart forbes....I watched a demo of bart forbes literally projecting his image off a photograph and doing his work from that....tis a way to make a living I gues. ...do I find his work inspring?..nope. is it commercially viable..sure..he makes a damn good living at it.


j