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Author   Topic : "A centaur"
black_fish
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Joined: 31 Jul 2000
Posts: 333
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:19 pm     Reply with quote
Here is a relatively quick concept drawing of a centaur. I know the horse part is wrong in a lot of places but I have to learn the anatomy of horses. I would want your thought about the style though: is it effective? Is it 'new'? is it boring?
And all the other random thoughts you could have about that, and about fantasy style concept drawings.



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http://www.jmringuet.com
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arniemg
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Joined: 25 Dec 2000
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Location: Pensacola, FL, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:25 pm     Reply with quote
that is really good. how did you do it?
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Mergatroid
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Joined: 30 May 2000
Posts: 165
Location: Pasadena, ca U.S.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:27 pm     Reply with quote
What do you mean by effective. You'll have to state what it is your trying to achieve first before we can answer any of your questions.

I think you can push the values further. The hair on his head and the tail looks weird cause its so graphic in comparison to the fur on the body of the horse (they don't seem to go together well). The copyright message is too close to the Centaur's leg creating a tangent and tension (could go smaller as well). Are these the types of comments you were looking for?
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Wyatt Turner
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Joined: 18 Oct 2000
Posts: 501
Location: Everett, WA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:29 pm     Reply with quote
hey great, it feels like my style.. esp the fore-arms.. I do the same thing..

i like it.
y@
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Dryfire
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Joined: 21 May 2000
Posts: 945
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 6:20 pm     Reply with quote
very nice, i would work on that back leg though if your gonna go farther with it - real nice highlights though!

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-=DryFire=-
'Reality is just a dream'
GoD Graphics
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Vortx
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Joined: 21 Jun 2000
Posts: 196
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 6:40 pm     Reply with quote
Hey that's cool. I like the way you drew the horse's hair.

Happy new year man. I'll be posting new stuff soon as well. Heheh.....=)

Hey, what kinda paper is that? j/k..

-feng

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Vortx
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Joined: 21 Jun 2000
Posts: 196
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 6:43 pm     Reply with quote
test
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black_fish
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Joined: 31 Jul 2000
Posts: 333
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2001 7:31 pm     Reply with quote
By effective I meant: does it work for you? If somebody's telling you 'look, a centaur!' do you imagine something like that or something different?

Mergatroid: I agree for the opposition graphic and realistic. I love to do graphic stuff and sometimes I can't help myself doing it. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

Vortx: I don't know the name of the paper. You should ask Feng about that.


Arniemg: brown paper, felt pens, grey markers and white paint.
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Nex
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Joined: 25 Mar 2000
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Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 2:44 am     Reply with quote
/me likes-

If somebody's telling you 'look, a centaur!' do you imagine something like that or something different?

I'd imagine something different.
A bit more noble looking and more slender wielding a spear or bow and arrows.
a woodland creature that is used to run long distances-
just my imagination of a centaur
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black_fish
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Joined: 31 Jul 2000
Posts: 333
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 10:48 am     Reply with quote
Thanks for your feedback Nex. That's funny because I've always thought of Centaurs being heavy horses/men, very strong and very 'barbarian type'. Your idea is quite interesting. As I'm trying to do pure commercial concept work it's very good to get a feedback on how people respond to something.
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Mozeman
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Joined: 07 May 2000
Posts: 217

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 11:03 am     Reply with quote
Hey black_fish

I really like your drawing. There are some issues with the anatomy, in particular the arms and legs, but it's a nice pose and I think it portrays the strength and power that you are going for.

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Mozeman
Moser Brothers Animation Forum
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Jezebel
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Joined: 02 Nov 2000
Posts: 1940
Location: Mesquite, TX, US

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 11:05 am     Reply with quote
I always pictured centaurs as being strong and muscular. Mainly because that's sort of how a horse is to begin with. But I would think that just as with humans, centaurs can come in all shapes and sizes.

Your centaur has a lot of soldier-like qualities, I really like that. One thing that I think is a little weird though is that the man half is so small in comparison to the horse half. Horses are quite a bit larger than men

Looks good, post more of your work!

-Beth

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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

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black_fish
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Joined: 31 Jul 2000
Posts: 333
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 3:52 pm     Reply with quote
About the anatomy problems:

I think what make the horse legs bad is in part due to my shading which is quite wrong. The shape isn't that good but the shading makes it worse.

For the arms: I screwed up the elbow area I think (going to fast) and I overexagerated the tendons in the forearms (but that's Bisley's fault ). Other than that it seems allright. Am I wrong? Is there something else?

Please correct me about the anatomy of the horse or of the guy if you can. Your help is appreciated.
(I know this drawing is done, but I want to make the next one better )
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Sempere
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Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 206
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 4:40 pm     Reply with quote
I agree with Jezebel. Itīs more a centaur from a "pony" than from a horse.

This detail is for me a lot more important that the way the hair looks.

Your character would have more strenght if you make he seems bigger... heīs the same height than an average human. And the body of your horse is too condensed, almost caricature like. It should be wider and longer if you want an aggresive character...

And talking about the horse body itīs obvious that we have a great mistake at the back-right leg. Not talking about anatomy, if not about volume. It fails as siluete.

Another things that personally donīt like is the too angular anatomy, specially in the arms. Lines donīt flow. Lines collide. It feels too mechanic, unnatural. I like more rounded and soft surfaces. But this is a personal taste.

I like a lot the way you finished the work, but you were a bit "rough" with the copyright thing !!!

Hope have help you a bit.

Do you have more conceptwork aroud here ?
I will be happy seeing it !

See ya!
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ToasT 01
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Joined: 03 Jan 2001
Posts: 74
Location: Johannesburg - South Africa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 10:35 pm     Reply with quote
The style is definatley not new but its a cool character des. none the less, its kinda an orc torso with a horse mixed in for good measure - like you cant see that ( doh ) but the only bad thing esp. as far as character design goes is that you havent created the same look at the top ( big, muscular tattoos etc... )on the botom i think this is more the reason you think the horse part doesnt work its not really drawn badly its just missplaced - even im confused now

( good work id like to see more )
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Rinaldo
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Joined: 09 Jun 2000
Posts: 1367
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2001 10:45 pm     Reply with quote
Nice drawing!

I always pictures them as slightly more elegant and refined. but still fairly muscular. not bulky tho. solid muscle but not a lot of it. (not a lot in comparason the ammount you're putting in).

problems have already been mentiond that I agree with. the horse half should be bigger IMHO. It would have been interesting to see if you could figure out a way to join between the horse and torso in terms of muscles but putting armour bit in there is a nice comprimise.
what Sempere said about the anatomy being too angular in places. you might be doing it on purpose but it lacks some solidarity in places IMHO. places like the wrists especialy don't apeal to me. the connection between the foreare and upper arm muscles look a bit wrong as well. hehe, but it is quite bisley.
more a personal thing I suppose


mmmmmm....more please

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black_fish
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Joined: 31 Jul 2000
Posts: 333
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 10:50 am     Reply with quote
Thanks for your comments guys and I mostly agree with what you said. Now I can see what's not working Hmmm
I should have made the horse body bigger that's true. I guess I just drew this guy like a normal guy who happens to have the lower part of a horse, not like a horse who has the torso of a man, if you see what I mean.
I also agree on the angularity thing: I like angular shapes, even for muscles, and it's totally a matter of taste. But it's true that I could have made it better in the arm area. It doesn't really wirk overall.
For the right back leg: I don't think there is a huge mmistake there since I used a reference photo but there is a mistake in the shape and the muscles there because I don't really understand the horse anatomy. But there's definitely a mistake.
Anyway this is a fairly quick drawing, about 3-4 hours from start to finish, and it's suppose to be 'commercial' so not very original but very 'in your face'. That explains some of the flaws.
Thanks again for your useful comments.

Semepere: the copyright thing is big because I posted that on my website. I don't know if it's really a 'repellant' for rippers, but...
And head up to my website if you want to see more:

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beekay-
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Joined: 24 Jan 2000
Posts: 64
Location: california

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 11:43 am     Reply with quote
wow, i really like this piece... the linework is very clean and nice... what type of paper did you use?

bk
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black_fish
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Joined: 31 Jul 2000
Posts: 333
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 2:23 pm     Reply with quote
The paper is:

Brand: Fox River
Name: Confetti
Color: Tan

You can find it at http://www.kellypaper.com/
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u2art
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Joined: 17 Nov 2000
Posts: 133
Location: FL, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 3:07 pm     Reply with quote
Hi, alot of great things have already been said...If I repeat, just ignore it... The anatomy in the forearm isnt so much as wrong, as it is flat and has no volume, straight lines read as flat, unless you use the correct line weight in the right areas. Theh anatomy is off in the forearm, but doing that could have fooled most people. You can cheese anatomy as most people do, by giving volume and conviction in your anatomy.

The shoulder nearest the viewer is slightly wierd too, again it's flat...That graphic on his arm should really follow the form, and not be flat, it destroys all feeling of form in the shoulder.
As for reference, I would never say "it cant be wrong because I used reference", not that you did, but too many people use that as an excuse...it is the persons fault if they chose crappy reference, or dont know enough about an object to draw it from reference.
It looks really graphic though...really commercial, line weight is nicely varied though, and I like that you drew and painted and used markers, if you went into it digitally, it could only get better with a nice drawing to start from.

Hope to see more

Art
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black_fish
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Joined: 31 Jul 2000
Posts: 333
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 4:08 pm     Reply with quote
Thanks for your comment Art, greatly appreciated, and you're right.
I really have to find a method to work quickly and at the same time keep track of all the little problems you pointed out. It's true that my shading on the arm is weak... I don't know what happened but enough with this arm

Just one thing: about the reference I meant that I followed what I had, namely a little picture, and I wasn't able to correct it because I'm not good at horse anatomy (or at human anatomy ). I could have looked for better reference but that's about the only book I have about horses, and I didn't want to delay my drawing the time to go buy a book or find something on the net (with my crappy 56k). I'm seriously trying to work fast, something I'm not used to, so I cut short on the reference
Thanks again guys for the comments, they are a real eye opener - in a good way.
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