[HellSpawn]

Hi Odd,

quote:

---

Could you show me the picture ilustraiting this because I'm not sure if i understand When i draw something i always have to draw alot of lines to get it rigt. And when i want it to make it clean then i use erasor, that makes the image look worse and the final line is bold.

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Ok I'll try and give you some examples of what I'm talking about. For anyone who plans on ripping me apart please take into account that this is just my opinion from being in the desing/gaming industry. But if you have any crits I would love to hear them.

"One Line One Draw" as my teacher tells me is what people in the industry want to see. The technique can make your art look confindent and give everyone the impression that you know exaxtly what your doing. I tell this to you cause since your new you can be aware of it from the begining. I wish I would have known this little tid bit 8 years ago, hehehe...

Ok I'm going to try and give you some examples. These examples would be if your were going to give your art to and 'Inker' and a Modeler. I.e. if you want to be working in the industry.

Here is a bad example of what I mentioned about hatching.






See how all the edges look jaggy? how messy this two pieces are? If I was to give these two picture to and inker he would look at me like I was retarded, hahaha. If I was to give these two drawings to a modeler do you think he could get the feel of these pictures? Do you think he could get that type of messiness I have going? He would have to be one hell of a modeler.


Now the next example is what I was trying to explain to you before. Sorry for the bad scans.... if you notice I do my gesters in a light blue pencil. Then for the finial I will do my "One line One Draw" over my gesters and get a very clean look for my drawing.

Sorry but these are not my best examples, but I think you can get the point.

Now If I gave these to a modeler he would be able to model these exactly. He will be able to capture the feel and would be easy for him to understand these pics. As for an Inker. Well the inker would be my best friend cause he would be able to finish inking these pic's quickly and go home and spend time with his wife and kids.

examples:


Leg anatomy may be a little off (legs are just a bitch for me )






Now what I'm rambling about is if you plan on taking your art to a level where you want to make money with it. If you want to sell yoursell art in the design / gaming indusrty.

These are lesseons that took years for me to learn and I hope this helps everyone who want's to go that step further.

Cheers

- Shawn

[Light]

Some good points.

Id just like to add it is okay to be messy to start with.

Try to get the proper shapes with scribbling and dont worry about being messy.

Then go over it with tracing paper, a lightbox, or new layers in a paint program.

If you try to do a clean line drawing to start with then your drawing will be more likely to look flat and nasty.

[Light]

One other point is that I didn't see any good examples of "hatching" in the first picture.

That is called scratching!!

Cross hatching is a respectable shading technique of layign down continious tone by using equally spaced overlapping lines as often seen in comic work.

[HellSpawn]

Greetings Light

quote

Quote:

One other point is that I didn't see any good examples of "hatching" in the first picture

That's why I said "bad example" Hehehe... I should have said 'scratching' my bad. It's still early and my damn cat kept my up till 2am meowing. And that the excuss I'm sticking with.

good point on the tracing paper. When giving drawing to a modeler they don't want to see any shading. That's why I didn't go into that.

And to clarify I never said to do a clean picture from the start. If you look at my drawings you'll see a mess of gesters done in very light blue pencils. But I'll do my final line with a regual HB pencil.

As 2D concept artist most of the stuff that will be passed on will look flat. but were getting way off the beaten track here...

I just make these points cause I think Odd want's to take his art to a full time paying job. There's always exceptions to the rules. Just that what I mentioned has helped me make $$$ in the industry. From my experience that's what inkers and modelers want from a concept artist. They wern't my best examples... but I think I got the point across.

Besides the tad bit of bickering... this is a pretty damn good discussion thread!

Cheers

- Shawn

[AndrewMyers]

You all seem to have forgotten that it has recently come to light that many painters in the 17th and 18th centuries used backlit models and transparent, gridded screens in order to "trace" a reference outline that would later be painted over.

So does this mean that "tracing" is just as valid as anything else, or that the Masters were frauds?

I choose the first.

[oDD]

Light:

As i said before drawing an oryginal art is my goal. Ive learned my lesson and as i said i will focus more on that field now.

Hellspawn & Ligt:

Thanks for answering to my question. I understand the "blue sketch under the final one" technique but i don't think artist that made this insane clean pice of art used a blue pencil (*WARNING NUDITY*):
http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=7594

is it matter of skill or a secret technique ?

[bearsclover]

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewMyers:
You all seem to have forgotten that it has recently come to light that many painters in the 17th and 18th centuries used backlit models and transparent, gridded screens in order to "trace" a reference outline that would later be painted over.

---

There has been much debate over this - whether the old masters did this frequently, and how much it affected their overall work. It certainly wouldn't affect artists who were doing "action" poses, or artists who were drawing and painting from their imagination, for instance. Most old masters still had to know how to draw completely unaided, if they wanted to create the kind of art they desired.

quote

Quote:

So does this mean that "tracing" is just as valid as anything else, or that the Masters were frauds?

It's "valid" to the individual, but that depends on the artist, their goals, etc. But is "tracing" the equivalent to freehand drawing? No. Is it a viable or "valid" substitute for the skill of freehand drawing? (In other words, should an artist not bother to learn how to draw, and just trace instead?) No. To have full freedom, most artists agree that freehand drawing is a good thing - a skill worth attaining. YMMV.

[nevanlinna]

yeh, nice thread I think.
here is quite a good example of cross-hatching, I think. Check it out. I'm just 17, and I don't want to tell YOU, what it is, but here is something anyway....
(scanning was bad, and it's a bit...)

[nevanlinna]

that was also made with ~hb pencil, in 10 minutes, and not thinkin very much the anatomy..
non-computer art I mean...

[c]

be careful with cross-hatching though, as it tends to flatten an image and it's kinda distracting too. pencils will only take you so far in my opinion, try using charcoal pencils with a very long tip, so you can bust out line variation AND smooth gradients with just one tool. good erasing with a kneaded eraser is important too.

here's an example of contour hatching, i went kind of overboard with the overworked nose and such but you can see what i mean (i think?):

[c]

oh and another thing

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH COPYING FOR LEARNING PURPOSES

as an artist you should have an attitude towards art where you feel you have stuff to learn from everything and everyone. like if you see a crappy artist in your class, but maybe his line quality is something you could learn from.

it's one thing to look at artwork from artists you admire, but when you go down and try to copy their work, to try to truly understand how THEY went about things will only deepen your own understanding of art.

i'm not trying to downplay your own abilities, or your own imagination, but i think it's egotistical for some people to think they can do it alone. as long as you feel you can improve and learn from others, as long as you struggle with every piece of art you make you WILL become a great artist.

[Rogelio Olguin]

your right

For example I am the "best" in my art classes right.... but even though I am the "best" in that class I see some works of some people that impress me and I learn from them. You can always learn from younger or less talented people becuase all have speciality in art in some area so yeah you might be a bad ass in most parts but something in that class stricks you and you start to think how was that done... you test things out by your own... or just ask and he or she will tell you.

Some modern painters looked at child drawings becuase those drawings represent something grow up people have lost and it is the ability to make simple objects mean a lot.

This thread is turning into an what is art really type thread... Art is everything and everywhere.

Art can not be defined becuase it is in our souls or hearts what ever you prefer.

[bearsclover]

Excellent contour crosshatching drawing, C! And excellent drawings, all! My, how this thread has taken its twists and turns!

I drew a little example of "contour" hatching lines vs. "regular" hatching lines:
And then here's a close-up of a quickie pencil sketch (the original is probably about 3"x4"), which uses simple cross-hatching techniques:

[Rogelio Olguin]

Hi first of I like the drawings very well done

Second... Light your right in some of the comments but I suggest to tone them to the level that people will hear you out instead of... making a whole thread on your subject. But yeh you have some good ideas. You do not need to be a pro to crit works but always be humble and crit right.

I usally go this way I first lay out the things that are working than go an say what things are not working well and suggest how to fix some things.

Ok now to pen cross hatching...

here is an example of crosshatching...



On the face I see some problems like the right eye is wierd in angle the nose is flat and longer than normal and some other minor stuff... this was a quick thing just getting an idea for some bigger works i want to do

oh a side note this was done with pen on paper scaned.

my cross hatching is a little messy but still has some amount of logic on it.
[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: Rogelio Olguin ]

[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: Rogelio Olguin ]

[HellSpawn]

Rogelio Olguin ---

That's awesome. Great use of hatching. You really were able to show a texture using hatch lines there. Good stuff, I love it.

Just wondering when you did this piece were you aware of exactly what direction you were hatching? Were you thinking at the time hatch lines goes towards the light or hatch lines goes with the direction of the object?

Great piece I would love to see more.

- Shawn

[Rogelio Olguin]

Thanks

The way I go with Hatching I think of my objects as 3d objects and try to go with the shap... almost like a grid on the face but a bit more expressive and messy

if you see this is not pure cross hatching I use some small lines that have no cross with them to highlight some minor areas of the skin or dots. Not sure if i used any here...

But mostly i go with the objects 3d representation of it with the hatching like having a grid is the best example i can think of. BTW I am still a newbie myself only 19 soon to be 20 yay!! hehe well most of my cross hatching is like this style and do more pen drawings than penicl drawins but here is an example of my pencil drawings.



This was done in around 1 hr or so...

I do blur objects a lot... but what i do is get the main shading done in pencil than blur than add details... blure again than add more highlights to it. so I do around 3 steps to get to this type of shading... and if I over blured and darkened an area i erase and blure till i get the effect i am looking for. This is none Computer art so all done with my bare hands and pencil.

doh! realized i did not answear the lighting question... yes I do think where the light is coming from I usally just choose one light in for this one it is around the top left going slightly off the paper.

[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: Rogelio Olguin ]

[pixelsoldier]

So.. you're saying you drew that, C?

[c]

sure! and here's another (no hatching just variable line) because i have no quibbles with highjacking other people's threads