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Author   Topic : "Wacom Cintiq 21UX/24HD - is it worth the price?"
samhell
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:16 am     Reply with quote
Hi!

Does anybody here have any experience with either the Cintiq 21UX or Cintiq 24HD?

http://www.wacom.eu/index2.asp?lang=en&pid=95
http://www.wacom.eu/index2.asp?lang=en&pid=9232

I'm terribly interested, but I would like to hear some thoughts on the value and feel vs using a regular tablet.

Any input is appreciated. Smile

Thanks!
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Tzan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:04 am     Reply with quote
Everyone that I know who uses one, have it at work, so they never paid for it.
They do like it.

So it just depends on how much of a hardship the price is for you.
If its just more credit card debit for you, maybe you should stick to a tablet.
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balistic
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:07 am     Reply with quote
Personally, I wouldn't buy one for home, because I find that being hunched over a big luminous surface gets really tiring on my eyes after only an hour or so. The nice thing about an Intuos is that you can sit further from the screen. I don't notice the same issue with my tablet PC, I think because the screen doesn't fill my whole field of vision. I can draw on my tablet for hours just fine.

For that kind of money, I'd get a big Intuos 4 and a 2560x1600 30" monitor and keep the change Smile


(I do have a 30" monitor, and I love love love it.)
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samhell
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:40 am     Reply with quote
Wow, thanks guys! I really did not see this kind of feedback coming, so I'm now really happy that I asked. Shocked

Can I throw a follow up question in light of the replies... Have you guys noticed that you get any benefit from working on a Cintiq when compared to a traditional tablet?

Thanks again!
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Returner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:46 am     Reply with quote
Tryed it at a mac store. Beats a tablet but not the same as a piece of paper. I say sketch and scan then use Cintiq 21UX or 24.

But I've heard that there has been dozens of new exciting digital paper patents registered from big companies. Personally I'd buy a used LE1600/1700 for 300.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vR1P5Ttz4U
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balistic
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:23 pm     Reply with quote
samhell wrote:
Can I throw a follow up question in light of the replies... Have you guys noticed that you get any benefit from working on a Cintiq when compared to a traditional tablet?


A Cintiq or TabletPC is going be a little nicer for doing sketching and line-work than an Intuos, but about the same for painting.

Keep in mind that with a Cintiq, the place where your stylus touches the glass isn't exactly in-line with where your stroke is going to be, because the Wacom sensor actually sits behind not only the glass, but the LCD itself. So there will always be a 1-2mm gap between where your nib is and where the software is actually drawing pixels. You can calibrate the drivers to minimize this effect, but it always present to some degree. This means that for fine line work, even on a big Cintiq, you will probably need to zoom in a bit in Photoshop/Painter to make sure your strokes are going in exactly the right places.

Wacom-powered tablet PCs are nice because you can paint while relaxing on the couch Smile although they aren't great for doing really high-res work (because they tend to be 1280x800 res).
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T_England
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:04 pm     Reply with quote
I had a Cintiq 21UX at my old work, I only used it directly occasionally, its a bit quicker for doing organic drawing on, the main issue I had with the thing was the colour performance, the 24 inch version is said to be vastly improved in that area. I agree with balistic its a bit draining hunched over a glowing tablet.
For drawing i think i just want to use pencil on paper more often actually, only takes 2 secs to scan it, best of both worlds!

I would only get one if money is literally falling out your pockets and burning holes left right and center haha. Its not a necessary investment for your art or your career, a Wacom/tablet of some form and semi-decent display is all you need to be doing top end work.
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Petri.J
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:34 am     Reply with quote
I have cintiq 12WX at home and I must say that while drawing on display is good and all that, but the display quality in 12" is not very good. Meaning that I still need a second monitor to check the colors. Good thing about 12" is that it's portable.

Leaning over the tablet is not very ergonomic so I also have Ergotron LX arm and I really recommend it if you are going to buy a cintiq.

Cintiq 21UX. I borrowed one at work from a college and after I had used it for one day I didn't want to give it back. Smile Display quality in 21UX is top notch and it's much better over all than 12WX. Ergotron LX also seems to work also with Cintiq 21.

Cintiq 24HD. I haven't had the change to this one, but one thing that bothers me is that you can't rotate it. It might, or it might not be a problem for you, but for me at least the ability to rotate is important. Even though you can rotate canvas in software I still prefer the physical thing, but that's just a personal preference. Another thing, like mentioned above is that you have to work in very uncomfortable position.


Conclusion:
If I could now go back in time with this knowledge, which of these three cintiqs would I get or would I just save my money for something else?

1. If you want to use your cintiq only at home, then I would choose 21UX paired with Ergotron LX. Even though 21" is very expensive, I would still invest to it.

2. If you travel a lot, and you want to take your cintiq with you, then I would choose 12" paired with Ergotron LX.
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samhell
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:14 am     Reply with quote
Wow, thanks again for all the input!

The LE1600/1700 was news to me, I thought that the Asus eee slate was the only one that had a wacom digitizer/screen functionality in it.

http://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Slate_EP121/

Anyhow, I found a store in my city where they have the 24" Cintiq available for trying it out. So it looks like I'm heading there on friday to do a hands on test. Also, with the feedback you guys provided I should be able to make an informed decision easily.

Thanks again! ^___^
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balistic
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:20 am     Reply with quote
If you're looking at Wacom-enabled tablet PCs, you should also check out the Samsung Series 7 Slate. It's generally considered to be a little nicer than the Asus slate, and it's fully Photoshop/Zbrush/Painter compatible.

I love my old tablet PC, but I would just re-iterate: they aren't the best for doing mega-high-res finished work because of the low-res screens they have (mine is 1440x1050, but I don't think anybody makes them that res anymore). The screen on the Samsung Slate does, however, have really good color and viewing angles, because, like the Asus, it's an IPS display, instead of the TN you get on most laptops.

If you were choosing between a tablet PC and a 12" Cintiq, I would absolutely go for the tabPC, because, like I mentioned before, it's great to be able to sketch on the couch, or at a bar Smile Also, you can get a brand new one for around $1200 US, which isn't much more expensive than the 12" Cintiq.

You could also get an older, used convertible tablet PC (the kind with a keyboard attached). Lenovo, Toshiba, and Fujitsu all make good ones with Wacom sensors inside, and if you can live with only a couple gigs of RAM and a Core2 Duo, you can find them for around $400 in good condition. They're MUCH heavier than the new Asus/Samsung slates though ... like 2.2 kg. Mine makes my arm sore after a while Smile
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Petri.J
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:59 am     Reply with quote
balistic wrote:
If you're looking at Wacom-enabled tablet PCs, you should also check out the Samsung Series 7 Slate. It's generally considered to be a little nicer than the Asus slate, and it's fully Photoshop/Zbrush/Painter compatible.

I love my old tablet PC, but I would just re-iterate: they aren't the best for doing mega-high-res finished work because of the low-res screens they have (mine is 1440x1050, but I don't think anybody makes them that res anymore). The screen on the Samsung Slate does, however, have really good color and viewing angles, because, like the Asus, it's an IPS display, instead of the TN you get on most laptops.

If you were choosing between a tablet PC and a 12" Cintiq, I would absolutely go for the tabPC, because, like I mentioned before, it's great to be able to sketch on the couch, or at a bar Smile Also, you can get a brand new one for around $1200 US, which isn't much more expensive than the 12" Cintiq.

You could also get an older, used convertible tablet PC (the kind with a keyboard attached). Lenovo, Toshiba, and Fujitsu all make good ones with Wacom sensors inside, and if you can live with only a couple gigs of RAM and a Core2 Duo, you can find them for around $400 in good condition. They're MUCH heavier than the new Asus/Samsung slates though ... like 2.2 kg. Mine makes my arm sore after a while Smile


That's a very good point.
-With 12" cintiq you have to carry bunch of cables and a power module so if you want to draw with it you have to have an power outlet nearby.
-Since the display quality is not so good in 12" anyway, you might be better off with tablet PC. The downside with tablet is that you are tied to the hardware in that laptop, where with cintiq it's just an extra display that you can attach to any computer.


Btw, have you guys seen this Pressure Sensitive Stylus for iPad already? It has 1024 pressure levels.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jonatherton/jaja-worlds-first-pressure-sensitive-stylus-for-ip
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Tomasis
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:00 am     Reply with quote
interesting discussion..

personally ive never tried Cintiq and I dont think id be interested of it due price. Not only that, also the components improve and go away as outdated as for hardware inside and displays alone. As someone said, buying x-large intuos 4 and large screen is better investment (which i did a year ago) Unlike eventual Cintiq that you have stick to the outdated screen and added expense for extra hardware to get the thing going on.

re tablet PC, it is much better buy. Im sure it will come larger screens with support for digitizer. You get good display and hardware inside. no hassle of cables, plus very Portrable!

Asus released big amount of products that might interest some artists. AIO all in display 20" touchable screen, Transformer Books, Tablet 810 (with support for digitzer and Windows Cool.

Im eyeing for 14" Transformer Book to complete or replace another Asus Transformer Prime 10" that I use currently. I miss the possibility to use PS cs6 Smile Though Sketchbook for Android is good app.

I can wait a bit when more manufacturers release more, bigger screens with support for digitzer.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/04/asus-transformer-book/

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/04/asus-tablet-600/

Skip this old EE Slate, heavy, hot outdated piece. LE1600 is a joke! I rather use my a4 intuos3 with any laptop than to be forced on LE1600 .
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samhell
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:40 am     Reply with quote
I got to try the 24" Cintiq last week and it was absolutely fabulous to work with. I did a 30 minute painting test with it and could not come up with anything negative about it except the size... well and the price. Very Happy

I'm really keen to jump to painting on the screen from using a tablet, but 30kg:s of cumbersome tech on the small table that I paint at is not okay. I have a few tips from Wacom EU where I could possibly try the 21" Cintiq in Helsinki, but as Tomasis pointed out the technology is getting old already. I still want to see it & try it though.

I'm really anxious to change the way I work, but I'm starting to think that waiting 6 months or so might not be a bad idea. Smile


@Tomasis: The ASUS eee-slate was never an option luckily, I just was not aware that there was already more options available. I took a look at the new ASUS products, looks really promising.

Randomly, I ran into this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60Kofl-phuc
http://www.computex.com.tw/viewsonic/Default.aspx?pageType=ProductDetail&com_id=1002&pdt_id=48876

Seems like Wacom is getting some competition.
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samhell
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:58 pm     Reply with quote
and another product enters:

http://www.slashgear.com/microsoft-surface-to-feature-digital-ink-stylus-support-18234493/
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Tomasis
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:36 pm     Reply with quote
the surface looks cool, lets to hope for 14" version Razz
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balistic
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:49 pm     Reply with quote
Yeah, I think the Intel/stylus version of the Surface will beat the Samsung Slate for art, since it's got full 1920x1080 resolution. Should be nice for painting, as long as PS and Corel can read the pressure data (they don't specify whether it's a Wacom sensor).
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:24 pm     Reply with quote
I tried one for about a week at my old work. Although it was nice for line work I found the drawing position weird. Just couldn't get comfortable with it and my neck and shoulder got really sore (even tried attaching it to a desk arm). Not to talk about the heat radiating of it. Couldn't see the benefit for painting.
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Sumaleth
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:03 am     Reply with quote
Dr Zulu!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:43 am     Reply with quote
Long time no see Sumaleth Smile Hope everybody's doing well.
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samhell
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:21 am     Reply with quote
New Cintiqs from Wacom, didn't really see this happening so soon. Smile

http://www.imaginefx.com/02287754332810607294/two-new-wacom-cintiqs.html

The 22" HD seems like a very welcome addition to the product line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=127T9MGdF4I&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWxD5E-zzIU&feature=youtu.be
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Petri.J
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:17 am     Reply with quote
Yeah, I've been using that 22HD at work for some time now and I can say that it's the best of them all. The stand is crappy, but fortunately you can use ergotron LX desk mount. I used it couple days without desk mount and my neck was screaming after that.
Buttons on the side are good and there are enough of them to fit my needs.
Touchbars has always been annoying in Cintiqs because you always accidentally swipe them, but in 22HD it's actually in a very good place. Also if you still accidentally touch it, you can use the toggle button to toggle between 4 possible settings. I have it set to "disabled/brush size/disabled/brush size" so that I can toggle brush size on and off.

Cheers, Petri.J
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samhell
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:23 am     Reply with quote
Thanks for the description/review, Petri! I had no idea that the product was out already. Smile

I think I will try to be extra nice the rest of the year and see if Santa brings one... (fat chance). Very Happy
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