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Author   Topic : "The 3d thread"
durgldeep
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:42 am     Reply with quote
whom abandoned us *sniffle* - so it's a good time to mutiny Twisted Evil

rigging, first check (below): the "Rigify" gizmo generates about half size
(not a good sign); fix is, scale it by 2.56 (close enough); first try so no big
deal, will get there...

also the automatic rig is *extremely* sophisticated, ie. at least five
different weights for the left palm alone; overkill for a simple, multi-object
model...


-----------

Oops, sorry I missed ur post, samhell (site's been down for a while and I didn't stop to look)...

samhell wrote:
Well, if you do decide on a online graphic novel type of approach, you know who to contact. Smile

Rosa had a nice intro and look to it but I lost interest the very second it turned into conflict/fighting. I just can't be bothered anymore when that is used as a way to make a story more interesting. Sad Sad

I must be getting old.


Understood re Rosa; the fact it's a solo effort is what interests me (and
that it's so well done)... consumer-oriented stories don't interest me at all.
Smile

Contact you about a graphic novel? Hmmmm... I have a counter-
proposal: I think the Sijun folks should bust out of the seniors home and
go 3d, full thrust. Smile

Bring up the wolf's head! /Rings Very Happy
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whom
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:23 am     Reply with quote
Nah I'm still around but more in stealth mode though I guess, new page eh? Twisted Evil


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:33 am     Reply with quote
2.64 released, I am downloading now actually so haven't tried it yet.
http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-264/




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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:17 am     Reply with quote
wow, that's spooky whom, can imagine the creature wearing it having two
mouths, ew (that is, if it's a mask and not the creature itself)... good one. Smile

2.64, uh oh... can I stick with 2.63 for a while? You're gonna post a review,
right (so I know what to cringe about?)? Smile

Finally cracked rigging, and it's soooooo simple (or at least now it is).
Didn't use the Rigify addon, did it manually (below). Rig looks the same as
the black wireframe, above, but without all the fancy stuff. Whole new world
(yet another one).

Next up: mesh versus bake, what's the right ratio (how simple can the base
mesh be and still be effective)? Pretty sure I can use a Sculptris mesh (for
the detail version), ie. am not fond of the *subdivide all* method...

Page 12, indeed. Smile

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:43 pm     Reply with quote
Nice rigging durgldeep and thanks. Smile

You know first update since May with Blender, felt weird to download a new version. I rather they just slow down on the updates because it's too hard to grasp all the changes when they keep change things here and there all the time. This update feels pretty stable, they changed Cycles settings a lot, hmm need to look into that more.
Main reason for me with downloading this version was to try out the skin modifier.
...Couldn't change size on the shape though, hmm....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:32 pm     Reply with quote
cloud generator. Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:46 pm     Reply with quote
Still working the elements, not entirely there yet though...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igIQnIeEDyM



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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:28 pm     Reply with quote
lol whom, flamethrower! loving it Very Happy
lots of good stuff there - u've been busy Smile

still working on that green guy (above), joining pieces into a single mesh;
no idea how to make joints 'rig-friendly', will find out soon if it's a mess or
not...

extruded fingers and thumb; never thought I could simplify a hand to this
degree (below), never mind all quads; still needs tweaking (thumb's a bit
too small, palm's too long, etc.); this was the part I was dreading - done. Smile


---------------

Been doing my research too, heh. Noticed the toes are a texture (and bump
map?) in this one (below), ie. am a stickler for detail but I guess not
everything needs to be modelled (*pout*). Smile


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVEycgQl5_c
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:50 am     Reply with quote
Not a bad tutorial (tho keep ur finger on the space bar/pause button, goes a
bit too fast (at least for me)):

Blender 2.6 Normal/Bump Mapping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4AXXEuuio

One correction (update since Dec. '11?): short cut for camera position is
now [numpad]0, rather than "Ctrl+Alt+[numpad]0".

Bad lighting but the texture kept disconnecting from the object, somehow
(managed to save an image before it happened a fourth time). One day
someone will invent a device that does all this fiddly stuff for us? Wink


--------------

121007 - Flashback, September 17, 2010:

durgldeep wrote:
Glad to see the notes on 3D, Quintus Dias ("long learning curve").
Wondered if I should go that route... don't think I'd last if the curve drags on and on. Smile


"Long learning curve", you can say that again! Very Happy

Just noticed the next leg of that curve/route seems to go straight up. Shocked
Mentioned this in the Sandbox thread: 3d just isn't where I need it to be
atm, ie. volumes that deform each other (rather than stratgic gaps in
knees/arms/etc.) but should be there soon (Blender's changing in leaps
and bounds)...

Found at least a couple workarounds on YouTube: mesh deform strategies
involving additional bones. Not sure I like that idea but we'll see (can't
resist a challenge, heh).

Meanwhile... hoplites! Very Happy

Total War Centre
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1225
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:18 pm     Reply with quote
Curve is still curving (intensity, specular, etc.) - and clothing (not as hard as I
thought). Smile

Well, armour. "Bell" curiass (below;wip). Amazed they made armour out of
linen. And etc. Smile

Armour: Shield, Helmet, Cuirass, Greaves
http://www.timetrips.co.uk/gw%20armour.htm


--------------

121009 - More about mesh deform ("blended normal maps"):

"We've got blended normal maps on him right now so you can see the
realistic muscle flexing. I would imagine that we've got one of the most
advanced systems for that in the industry right now."

God of War 3 Bonus Features - The Making of God of War III in HD Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmNXvBFBDQs

Point being, complex mesh deforms are likely in-house, custom made
programs?


Last edited by durgldeep on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wiredgear
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:58 pm     Reply with quote
You guys are doing amazing... I tried 3D along time ago... however, I just did crazy abstract designs.

Durgle, the character is looking better and better. Keep it up.
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durgldeep
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:34 pm     Reply with quote
Thanks wiredgear. I tried 3ds max years ago (bunch of tutorials) but couldn't
get into it. Now there's stuff like Sculptris, which is idiot-proof (why I can use
it, heh). Not everyone's cup of tea though, for sure.

Re character, not sure I agree, lol. Am still finding my feet. Gladly, Blender's
the last frontier (after Sketchup, Sculptris); design clunkiness should
disappear. Smile

Thanks for stopping by.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:01 am     Reply with quote
The toes seem to be a bit roundy on the ends and the fingers are a bit fat. Thumbs seem perfect. Just my crit!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:19 pm     Reply with quote
durgldeep, now your getting somewhere, looks good. Very Happy

fur testing...

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:25 pm     Reply with quote
wiredgear, model's in ur inbox, please fix! Very Happy - good eye; toes etc. are on
my fix list, yep; been back and forth between segmented model and single
mesh (for the body), some kinds of detail are last on my list atm but thanks
for the c&c, always welcome. Smile

thanks whom, interesting fur test... and I remember your suggestion re
Roman stuff (way back), have finally come around to that again; God of War
jogged my memory, heh - but look (below), triangles! I feel so betrayed... Wink

um, actually wiredgear secretly told me he's a huge 3d fan and is working
on a new project, watch this space! Wink


Breaking Down God of War 3's Epic Opening Scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ6Th0FdHng
---------------

btw whom, Ctrl+F3 (Blender screen grab) gives me a black/blank png
(whether I checkbox "Full Screen" or not). Wondering if it's a known bug or
just my machine? No help in google/blender. Any idea?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:42 am     Reply with quote
I know there was a bunch of known bugs after the release so they released a new version yesterday, did you download it? A 2.64a version. ctrl and f3 worked for me when I tried....
Actually I didn't realize that they changed the settings in cycles and thought there was something wrong with the path tracing, apparently you have to change the tiles.... hmm... still hard to adapt with the changes from time to time.....

Here's my screen, hey durgldeep lol I didn't know you could make a screen from Blender.
I am old school and still use paint for that. Twisted Evil

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:49 am     Reply with quote
Interesting regarding the triangles above, I guess they sculpt everything with a lot of details nowadays... especially poster material. Nice youtube clip, didn't know much about that game. I don't game that much you know, just look at graphics and stuff when it comes to games.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:30 am     Reply with quote
Sorry, Blender just ate two hours of my work - don't wanna talk about it. Evil or Very Mad

*moves on*

whom, didn't download 2.64 at all, no; still 2.63 here (*mutter*). Thanks
for the feedback re screen grab. Before naming/saving, if u uncheck "Full
Screen" (left side bar) it saves only the active viewport, which is what I
was trying to do (Alt+PrtScn resolution sux, need another way).

Old? samhell was trying to sell "old" too - I'm not buying it. Very Happy

I'm not a gamer either, I just pick them apart; cool graphics/methods/etc.,
yep. Interesting screen grab btw; looks like cycles? I tried cycles render a
couple times (just yesterday), seems the lighting has to be maxed for a
clear image?

Um, here's what's left of my 'progress' shot (below) - *sniffle* - colour is
just blocked using vertex groups (not texture paint); will try to do a whole
scene that way, just to motor trough it (like what I started doing in
Sketchup)...



Edit: oops, just noticed the "specular" on the armour disappeared too
(when I moved it to another layer); fixed.
--------------

Hehe, here's my screen (manual capture). Notice the "timeline" is
missing? Or whatever it's called. I think every video/turotrial I've seen
they have the timeline open, all the while complaining about visibility, ie.
constantly resizing the side bars to make the image larger - close the
freaking timeline! lmao - drives me *crazy* Very Happy



Last edited by durgldeep on Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:09 pm     Reply with quote
lol yea I guess the feeling of being old is just a matter of mind, or hmm mind over matter? Anyway I felt old already at 20 so I guess one shouldn't listen to me. Embarassed
your character is starting to look real good, you gonna use armature on the clothes or how do you solve that?
I assume you gonna rig the character.

I've been treading slowly with my learning curve lately, have had to focus on other stuff in my life but things look like they are gonna work out for the better hopefully.

Btw what did I say about Roman stuff way back? can't remember and I fear I do ramble way too much. Twisted Evil


This is what I was trying to render before...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:10 am     Reply with quote
whom wrote:
Btw what did I say about Roman stuff way back?


Sept 11, 2010:
Quote:


Oct 17, 2010:
Quote:
ok back to Roman inspiration. ("Rome series")(I love Roman stuff lol)


that shield is complete *awesomeness* - I have plans for a medusa shield
(the round, hoplite kind), when I'm more comfortable/competent in Blender;
again, am feeling relieved that blender is last stop in the 3d chain (nowhere
left to run, hehe)... Smile

re armature/rig, yep, will get to that; though I'm also pondering some 'low
tech' solutions; am a big fan of simplicity and haven't yet seen any
(commonly available) 'high tech'/fancy stuff that's really impressive...

re learning curve, after watching the God of War 'making of' vids (and so
many other 'making of' series) I think you're ready to go; example: Weta
Digital staff were not 'ready' to make the Rings, they had to learn/adapt
on-the-fly; same for God of War (had to deal with PS2/PS3 switch, for
starters)...

I think hoplite (citizen soldier) is a good metaphor for all the 'citizen
artists' out there, those who outnumber produciton studios a thousand to
one (at least); will be interesting to see what happens in the next ten years
or so, ie. I don't think the citizen artists will be quiet much longer, heh
heh... Smile

nice new model btw - u've been holding back on us! Very Happy
--------------

Hehe:

Dec 18, 2010:
Quote:
Yea you know, you can't never go wrong with Roman, might be the design of it; the pillars and props.

--------------

Oops, missed ur question, whom: "your character is starting to look real
good, you gonna use armature on the clothes or how do you solve that?"

Armature will work on clothes too, yeah. Far as I know vertexes are either
attached to a bone or not, doesn't matter what object the vertex might
belong to. So the hanging straps (for example) would partly move with the
legs and partly stay put (upper part). Or I could use a fancy particle thing,
make them "cloth" and turn on collision (though they might flatten on
collision) - still lots to learn. Smile

Still experimenting with rigging on the old green man model (getting
easier). "Automatic weights" doesn't do such a bad job, really; it's those
radical poses that cause glaring issues (I guess everyone wants to see
how far they can contort the figure, first try)...



Last edited by durgldeep on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sumaleth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:46 am     Reply with quote
whom: is the noise in some of your images an artistic choice or an artifact of the rendering system?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:10 am     Reply with quote
Sumaleth, the noise from the rendering is usually a matter of a time issue, takes real long time to render the scenes without noise. I should add that also depends on the render engine, with path tracing the higher the samples value the longer render time.
Usually those are just experimenting renders so I settle for some noise, even in my 3d practise speed models.... Not sure if I'm lazy or just a busy man these days, hehe. Twisted Evil

durgldeep, thanks for the reminder, hmm perhaps I should go through the pages in this 3d thread. In the experiments I have made this far cloth and props are difficult, There's the possibility to make them in the game engine for real physics, hence why I focused on the game engine. Still need more time with that. A colliding chain with physics is kind of hard to pull through. Usually they do that with scripts I assume.

Been messing around with particles today, they have a new feature in the compositor. "particle info", with it; it is possible to fade particles....
I have a video on my site too if you guys are interested.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:57 am     Reply with quote
durgldeep, holy shit you gotta look at this tutorial you gonna love this, the new toys in 2.64 is amazing. With skin modifier you can make an armature immediately on the primitive. Wonderful tool....
http://www.blenderdiplom.com/index.php/en/tutorials/item/100-blender-264-tutorial-skin-modifier


I made this alien real quick with that tecnique and managed to pose it real quick too.



..
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:58 am     Reply with quote
got real excited about skin modifier, real useful tool when it comes to sculpting. Maybe now I can make something for my sculpting section.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:20 pm     Reply with quote
thanks whom - wow, u're on fire! Very Happy

the skin modifier vid didn't work for me but this one did (there's always
another way, hehe) - and look, a timeline! Twisted Evil

Blender Tutorial: Skin Modifier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pSjOd94Lw

will check it out Smile

also interesting re triangles versus quads; if there's any real difference at
all (someone pointed out that quads are actually two triangles, ie. four
vertexes any way you slice it); seems like the industry solution for
triangles is to up the processing power...?

lots to consider... Smile
--------------

here's a start (restart) on the leg protection; not hard at all, really; just the
way u'd think to do it - but just do it, hehe; started extruding the leather
straps and realized this will work for scaled armour (and otherkinds) too...
the fabric sticking out the top of the belt looked better when it was hanging
down (as it will be again) - anyhoo, onward (still lots to do)... Smile

oh, bit of a discovery: "mark seam" has other uses, such as a placeholder
when learning/sorting mesh (u can see I'm still experimenting - but gotta
move on too)... Smile




--------------

Base mesh is done (though looking more barbarian than greek atm, heh),
moving on to another one. Smile With the curiass in place, the cloth along the
top of the belt would need to be toned down a lot (so it doesn't poke
through). Likely Greek tunic next ("chiton"?), so I can try more complex
cloth stuff.



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:00 pm     Reply with quote
durgldeep, Real nice character you're starting to get there. Texture and unwrap is a whole process for sure, I feel I got somewhat some sort of a grip around that if one can call it that. Everything with cycles made me have to re-learn all that....
Will see if I can make some more skin modifying tomorrow, Blender is starting to become real good though with all things said about the hard work to understand the updates it is all worth it in the end.

Experiment with particles and sci fi contrail. Damn used 2 million particles and I actually thought everything would crash. I wouldn't wanna try with 3 million.... Evil or Very Mad

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:23 pm     Reply with quote
durgldeep wrote:
um, actually wiredgear secretly told me he's a huge 3d fan and is working
on a new project, watch this space! Wink


Lol I should give it a try... Maybe it'll come in good use Smile

By the way, a lot of good stuff here guys. Seeing a lot of improvement on that character Durgle.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:36 pm     Reply with quote
thanks whom, interesting contrail there (millions, eek; don't think I 've
done millions of anything on this machine...)... Smile Have heard bits about
various differences, such as Shift+S is now Shift+A (wtf?), guess that was
the skin modifier demo (link above). Man, Blender's not hard enough to
learn, now they're changing shortcuts...

wiredgear thanks, hope you do try a bit of 3d (a bit more I should say (re
earlier 3ds max/abstract stuff)); harder than painting (I'd say) but has be
ur cup of tea too, I guess.

chiton's good enough for a first try; painted myself into a corner re design
'flow' (which is mostly set from the beginning, ie. hard to change it later);
will know for next time. Definitely gotta decide fabric weight at the outset
too (dictates level of detail). One subdivision...


-------------

Was gonna post to the "Blender basics" thread but, um, I guess this isn't basic...




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:41 am     Reply with quote
Skin modifier is a real useful tecnique for sculpting, in this one I made some test with setting up a more complex object and then posing it. Works pretty neat if you ask me. Still have some more things to try out before I try more finished objects.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:56 pm     Reply with quote
good one whom, glad the rigging issue is solved. Smile

Looking at that tutorial again, seems like the posing issues haven't changed,
ie. vertexes simply rotate with the bone (no 'smooth' transition between vertex
groups); tho highly likely there's something I just don't understand yet re
vertex 'management', need to know more about weight paint (which is identical
to vertex paint btw, ie. have to hit the vertex directly or nothing happens).

Onward. Smile
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