[The Magic Pen]

A moment of silence in rememberence for the more then 3000 victoms of senseless violence , becuase we cannot always see through our diffrences.

[Malachi Maloney]

Rest in Peace.

[Gandalf-]

Pray for no further violence. My thoughts are definitely with the victims today. I'm participating in a candle-lighting ceremony later in the day.

[HawkOne]

Also light some candles for the atrocities in Somalia 1991 (300,000 dead), Cambodia 1975-79 (1,650,000 dead), Rwanda 1994 (800,000 dead), Afghanistan 1980-? (1,400,000 dead), Congo 1998-? (1,700,000 dead), Sudan 1983-97 (1,900,000 dead), East Timor, Bosnia and so on and so forth.

And who knows how many more when the US administration manages to coax the nation into war mode and unleash all their superior mayhem on any nation of cave dvellers and/or unquestioning brainwashed religious fanatics (pretty much the same thing AFAIAC) led by some insane, ruthless despot and his nearest diciples/family.

It seems as if it isn't the good citizens of the USA who are dying, it somehow isn't so important ... the life of 1 US citizen = 1000 Sudanese ??? I dunno ... it's kinda ... interesting ... ??

How's that for fire starter ...

(unless this post is removed, in spite of your precious 1st amendment)

"AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

[Impaler]

Imagine September 11 without a television.

[[Shizo]]

*tries* *tries..*
Phew! No, can't imagine!

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: [Shizo] ]

[Mindsiphon]

quote:

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It seems as if it isn't the good citizens of the USA who are dying, it somehow isn't so important ...

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Wrong thread for this.
What an ass.

[Rat]

No. Comment.

[Freddio]

there are no winners out of this....

no matter how many people died in other countries as a result of US interest, it still does not justify september 11.

Innocent people died.

[Rat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Freddio:
Innocent people died.

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And innocent people haven't died other places as a result of American interests?

A friend of mine once described it as "the wakeup call that didn't wake anyone up".

I don't want to start a debate, as this isn't the place, but I just had to say that.

[Mindsiphon]

Let's see your friends and family get blown up. What if your family were in the towers?
It would be different if the shoe was on the other foot impressionable one. Being angry at the media is just. Feeling that innocent people deserved getting killed is not.
Do you condone that stuff.

Murder, no matter how you cut it, is wrong unless it is deserved.

Child rapists, terrorists etc etc need to be shot and killed.
Only then it is just to kill.

The people in the towers never committed crimes like that.

So if a mother has a son who grows up to be a serial killer, is it ok to execute the mother because of the sons actions?

If the American government conducts itself in a questionable manner, do innocent men, women and children need to pay the price?

[J Bradford]

Rat if you had family who were killed that day I am sure you would feel much different.

[Vesuvius]

Rat, try (I know it's hard) to read the other message before responding.

if you READ what you're getting so upset about, you'd see that he is the first to admit that innocents around the world die due to US actions and interests ("no matter how many people died in other countries as a result of US interest"), but he also says that innocents dying here doesn't make it better, it just adds to senseless death (" it still does not justify september 11.
Innocent people died.").

J.Bradford - I agree and disagree.
Rat has a good point about US cruelty and indifference (do you know how much less foreign aid we provide than almost all other first world countries?), but at the same time Rat doesn't seem to be at the point Freddio is at, where she sees that ALL DEATH is horrible, and that just because the US has done bad things it doesn't make it okay to do bad things to the US. she goes "and innocent ppl haven't died in other places?" as if that fact would somehow negate these deaths. life doesn't work that way Rat, the attitude you have is that same that is fueling the current jihad of GW Bush against everyone he doesn't like, and anyone else stuck in those countries. the attitude that it was very bad that 9/11 happened, and therefore because 9/11 was so bad, it's okay to do other bad things to help us feel better. that's what the terrorists (among other things) were doing to us, saying that they've had a lot of suffering (some perceived, some real, at the hands of the US) and that somehow doing bad things back will be justified and make things improved.

If you want to end something like this you have to strive for peace and forgiveness, and while military action can be necessary for defense, it should only be used as a last resort and with clear constraints, because a gun doesn't explain things, a gun doesn't feed people, a gun doesn't bridge a gap between countries and ideologies, and a gun doesn't discourage future retaliation. the only things that do are either gradual reconcilliation or genocide.

[neff]

Another Question,
what would be if America attacks the Irak?
What do you think about it?
Here in germany the actual president wont support to take part on a war, because he sees no plans for the future, the time AFTER that war?
so, well?

Dont mind my bad english.

[Rat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Vesuvius:
Rat, try (I know it's hard) to read the other message before responding.

---

Yes, I do mean to sound like a bitch when I say this:

Vesuvius, try (I know it's hard) to be me before you say that.

I read the entire thread before I said that. I interpreted it. You are not me. You do not know how I read things, compared with how you read things. I never once said that I didn't feel sympathy for the families of the victims of 9/11. I didn't say that I do, but I also didn't say that I don't. Actually, I do. I know what it's like to lose something you love.

Oh, and I don't think that all death is bad. Natural death is good. But all murders, mass murders, massacres, executions, etc. are bad. At least in my mind. If someone kills thousands of people, that's bad. If someone else kills thousands of people because someone 1 killed their people, that's equally bad. Maybe worse. Depending on the number of people killed by each side. Or if someone murders one or more people, and gets the death sentence, does that make the executioner any better than the murderer?

Killing in cold blood is bad.
Mercy killing, as long as it's really mercy killing, is okay.
Suicide is okay. That's often natural selection.
Euthanasia is okay. A terminally ill patient should be able to say they want to die.
Killing for the sake of killing is bad.

The Americans are killing in cold blood. Bin Laden (yeah, remember him? the original target? the guy everyone seems to have forgotten about?) killed in cold blood. Murderers kill in cold blood. All wars have been in cold blood.

Bin Laden wasn't stupid. He planned an early morning attack, when fewer people would be around. If he had been aiming to kill, god only knows how many people would have died. Instead, he just wanted to wipe out the buildings, crash the economy.

And no, I'm not defending him. I'm stating facts as I see them. Or my opinion at any rate.

Yes, September 11, 2001 was a terrible tragedy. Yes, the people behind it should be caught and punished. Yes, the people who died should be mourned. No, what the American government is doing is not right. Forgetting the original target (a small group of men) in preference of a totally different country is wrong.

NOBODY is justified to kill.

At least I have an opinion. I'm not like all the people at my school, who see this from the American angle only.

*gets down off the soapbox. Leaves. Vows not to reply to this thread again.*

[Impaler]

If you guys are going to blow our puny media-influenced American Imperialist minds, at least have the courtesy to create a new thread instead of hijacking another one.

Doing otherwise just smacks of a sophomoric attitude, the sign of a true second-rate thinker.

[Coaster]

(disclaimer for whiners: I am in no way the creator of this image and I think it's very offensive, but after seeing floating around in forums so much I thought it was oh so appropriate.)

[Vesuvius]

but Impaler, I AM a second-rate thinker.

despite that I'll honor your wishes and refrain from any other posts here.