[Impaler]

If you'd like to extend your sympathies to the victims of September 11, this isn't the thread. Someone else created one for that.

This is an attempt at intelligent discussion.

To continue whatever posts were made in the aforementioned thread, I extend the following arguments.

Your contention that the skirmish in Afghanistan is somehow immoral is flawed to the extreme. You actually buy into the terrorist rhetoric, and as a result, you assumed that we were on the hunt for like, 20 or 30 beards. In reality, we declared war against the Taliban government, the latest and greatest in the country's volatile past.

You remember the Taliban? The government where women couldn't get educated or speak in public? The government that promised peace and prosperity 25 years ago and then whipped around at break-neck speed and raped their people just like their predecessors? The government that funded terrorist groups all over the region? The government responsible for September 11?

Yeah. Them.

Oh. And suicide. That statement was cold-hearted and naive. Suicide, aside from the old-school hari kari or jumping-on-a-sword bit, is a byproduct of societal pressures, not natural selection. There's nothing natural about suicide.

Vesuvius, we've donated trillions of dollars in foreign aid ever since World War I, only to have it get stolen by the current corrupt pseudo-democratic government in place there, or to have it disappear completely, or to have it lost in the World Bank bureaucracy. We've stopped because we don't get return on what we give. We've seen nothing come from our efforts.

I agree with you on everything else, for once.

Hawkone, it's a real shame that the world forgets so easily about true atrocities. The fact that you can recite all those handy-dandy statistics came from American foreign policy experts hard at work. They didn't come out of nowhere.

It also raises a point about Imperialism. If America were to go on a true crusade against evil dictators EVERYWHERE, you can be sure that everyone would be flaming America for being a hegemonic nightmare, crusher of goverments and dreams. In short, they would get just as much flak as they get now for defending their interests.

It seems to be the toy of every social critic to blame American intervention on socioeconomic intent, to blame it on oil fields or new military bases. In reality, if you look at most of our foreign policing in the last 25 years, you would see that they were done to protect ourselves. If you make yourself an awfully big target, you better protect yourself. Wishing America to roll over and expose its underbelly while thousands of combatants bite in for their own motives is ridiculous, yet with every gravity bomb we drop, people associate this country with global terrorism more and more.

Then again, maybe America's hyperdevelopment over the last 150 years have been too much for the rest of the world, beneficent to our allies and leaving the poorfolk in the muck. We've pumped so much money and changed everything so much that most people couldn't adapt, and in a sense, we created entire legions of entrepeneuers bent on destruction. Who knows?

September 11 happened because people hate the rich kid with the sports car and the buxom girlfriend. It goes beyond jealousy to something else, to a point where we hate someone because we hate ourselves. We hate our 4-cylinder Datsun, we hate our lonely Saturday nights, and as a result, we despise the one who has things that we don't. We attribute this possession to his being greedy and selfish, and his implicit superiority. We don't care if the kid volunteers at a hospital; in fact, we can't even imagine that the rich kid could so something like that. We become ignorant in our hatred and wish poorly on the rich kid, just to make ourselves feel important or somehow better. America struts around with this ignorance, and even though America is home to good will and freedom, we're still hated.

[Coaster]

oh great, I don't need to post that really stupid image again do I?

[Impaler]

Don't get arrogant, or else I'll have to point out some of your less worthy post/thread contributions. Wouldn't be good for either of us; you'd look like a hypocrite and I'd look like an ass. Arguing on the internet at least gives people an open forum where they can type what they feel, even if its wrong.

In general, argument delivers nothing, since both sides will never be convinced of the opposing argument. It's just masculine assertion.

[Coaster]

People aren't allowed to learn from their mistakes?

[social drone]

the attack on the world trade center last september did not happen because people in the middle east were jealous of rich kids fucking the big titties

the attacks on september 11th happened because the middle east is at war with the u.s.a. you wouldnt fucking know it by watching t.v. or reading newsweek, but yes we are at war with the middle east.

for a long time now (through more than a couple administrations) the u.s.a. has been bombing the shit out of the middle east, our planes fly into nofly zones and drop their bombs on their military and civilian population alike...if its not a radio tower its some poor fucking sheep herder. our air force has a standing order not to fly back to base with their payload. reguardless of threat, the bombs get dropped.

people all over the middle east suffer each day as a result of our actions, its no question that they dislike us, and its no question to them why they dislike us.

the u.s. and british were in the middle of a military action to overthrow the taliban right when sept 11th happened. our governments decision to remove the taliban from power had nothing to do with the terrorist attack or even the threat of such attack. the taliban were not even directly related to the group al qaeda or to osama bin laden...if you remember correctly the u.s.a. asked for the taliban to find osama bin laden and to extradite him to the u.s., the taliban offered to do exactly that if the u.s.a. would only hand them some evidence of his guilt. the u.s.a. refused, and thus so did the taliban.

the u.s. then bombed the shit out of them...

the taliban wasnt a target in the war on terrorism, it was a target in the war on the taliban...

you bomb somones home + you take his food + you destroy his government = one pissed off person

religion and freedom have nothing to do with it.

[[Shizo]]

True, but that's what 99.9% of Americans are conditioned to believe through mainstream media. It's all bad..
Now when i hear people saying "they worship god that tells them to go kill people, thats why they hate americans" i don't even bother to say anything and i dont enter the conversation.

[Giant Hamster]

JIHAD!

[edible snowman]

is there such a thing as a reliable source about what really happens? i've heard so many completely opposite story lines it's ridiculous. does anyone get close to just giving straight facts without giving too much of an opinion.

[[666]Flat]

quote:

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Originally posted by Impaler:
Arguing on the internet at least gives people an open forum where they can type what they feel, even if its wrong.(...)since both sides will never be convinced of the opposing argument.

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Someone had ta post it.

[Freddio]

yes we are all tired of that pic, its been posted in the other september 11 thread.